moose power?

[93fordturbo]

Right, but with low enough compression to turn out serious hp, it will be difficult to start, thats waht happened with that dps truck of Ken's or whatever his name was. i think if i recall correctly

 

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

This is a quote from a thread discussed here a while back discussing why a PSD makes more power than an IDI. One thing is that the IDI is just that, an indirect injected engine, where the PSD is a direct injected one, as well as the Cummins engines. Aside from that the guys were asking why these newer engines were making so much HP while still running decent MPG. Here's the answer as best as I could put it.

Any ECM controlled engine will out perform a non ECM controlled one. If you have taken any classes for ECM controlled cars or understand how the ECM controls every parameter of how the engine runs then you'd understand how they do it.
Carbureted engines can be tuned for one specific climate condition, and run perfectly in that climate. However, if any one of the several parameters of that climate condition change, that engine will no longer perform at peak efficiency without retuning.
However with an ECM controlled engine, the majority of the engines efficiency related parameters are controlled via the ECM. The ECM precisely calculates the climate conditions and engine efficiency sensors, then compiles the data and makes adjustments to the engines tune to accommodate for any changes in the climate conditions. The ECM does this all in less than a second (actually probably several times every second) and does this every second the engine is running.
So putting this into perspective towards the IDI Vs PSD topic, an IDI is much like an older carbureted engine, they can be tuned for optimum performance at whatever the climate conditions were during the tuning procedure. Where, as explained above, the PSD is an ECM controlled engine and is no different than any other modern ECM controlled engine, it is continuosly tuning itself based on current climate conditions.

So basically, this is how that modern turbocharged 4 banger just whipped the pants off of your 450hp 429 Cobra Jet. Leaving you sitting there wondering how an engine less than half of your displacement just gave you a spanking, and a mile down the road is cruising along getting 35mpg. lol

In short, not without a team of engineers and expert tuning experience will you ever be able to pull the efficiency (in terms of MPG or power output) out of an IDI that you could a modern computer controlled diesel. Even then I'd doubt its possible.

 

[93_444idi]

i would think you would want a similar setup to anyone wanting to get a lot of power out of a turbo idi...

blower
shave pistons to ~19.5:1 thats a CR that will give you enough room to run your boost without blowing headgaskets and still be able to start it in the mornings
type4 camshaft (you like torque, you'll love this cam)
rod bolts
head studs
moose pump
bb injectors

see what happens. nothing wrong with trying something out of the ordinary, let us know what happens and if it doesnt work we know not to do it.


high hp idis are possible, just look at hypermax's 1000hp idi... just takes a lot of money, unlike 12 valves. 12 valves are great engines, thats why you read about em all the time. thats also why an idi is a $200 engine and a 12v is a $2000 engine. everyone tells me to just get a 12 valve but I think idis are unique and if I can get some good power from this thing it'll be more of a head turner than the 12 valves that every other kid has.

 

[FordGuy100]

Personally, I would go for a vortech style supercharger versus a roots, but thats just me. Roots look way better though (look at them pics ).

Turbocharger is your best bet though.

 

[blown84]

444idi, that was the kinda answer i was lookin for. if i build it, and blow it up, ill just get another 6.9, and leave it N/A.

anyone got a link to the vids of mels misters? or where i can get the typ4 cam?

 

[OLDBULL8]

I used to sell the blowers off the 8V-71 to dragsters, but they were all gassers. My God that was 20 years ago. The picture of them on this thread is how they were set up. On GM Busses where the 8V was used the intake filter was about 18" in dia. and 5-6" thick with a gallon of oil in them, the 8V is 568 CID direct injected 2 cycle, and if IIRC only 230 HP with N72 injectors, N79 would increase the HP up to 250.
I can't for the life of me why you would even consider an 8V blower on a 6.9 IDI. Unless you wanted a show (off) truck with a big blower sticking above the hood. It sure as hell ain't gonna do anything for HP or Torque on a 6.9. A gasser has a combustion chamber where the burn takes place all at once, were as 6.9 diesel has a precumbustion chamber where the burn is fed thru a small opening slower and longer to attain Hi torque at lower RPM, full torque is attained between 1800 and 2000 RPM, 185 HP at 2400 RPM . Don't gasser's reach Hi torque somewhere around 3500-4000 RPM. The later 7.3 DI has the same intake/exhaust valve size with a turbo to force more air in quicker, peak torque is at 1600-2300 RPM, 250 HP at 2700 RPM. IIRC the blowers took 15-25 HP just to run them, but then again the dragsters idled at 2000 RPM.

 

[93_444idi]

typ4 is the man's user name on this site. pm him and he'll give you a price quote. no clue on misters, i just know mel (user name agnem) is the one who sells em.

 

[93_444idi]

lot of people against the idea.. not sure I understand why though. You're making boost, same thing a turbo is meant to do. You're taking in cool air and while its not intercooled you arn't planning on supplying more boost than a factory turbo without an intercooler supplies. Sure you're gonna take some power to make it, but I think having a blower would be neater than hell. And if you lower the compression theres no reason you cant run more boost. It will be warm air so I guess you wouldn't want to overdo it.


can someone explain to me why this idea is getting shot down across the board? no one here has tried it but everyone "knows for a fact" its a terrible idea and wont work. it's different and may not deliver the wanted results, but whos to say it wont? and its not like he's just slapping a blower on a stock 6.9 and calling it good, he's asking for ideas. rough crowd in here.

 

[Black dawg]

Ive always felt that that little hole into the prechamber is what is holding power back.

 

[BrandonMag]

anyone got a link to the vids of mels misters? or where i can get the typ4 cam?

Can't help you on a video of Mel's Moose Misters, but if you PM Russ (member name typ4) he's got the info on the typ4 cam.

 

[NMB2]

EDIT: Oh wow, I didn't realize NMB2 had said he was running 20 psi under 1100* without an intercooler I though he'd said 16psi. WOW Now I'm going to have to pull out the smiley.
Prove it, and from now on when you make a statement like that post the specs of your engine. Quit making dangerous blanket statements without any sort of evidence, where's the videos or write ups on all of these IDI's pushing over 16psi boost never climbing above 1100*EGT without an intercooler, or also in this case specs on your setup since you have supposedly done it.

Specs of my engine are in my signature. Proof? Here is the video from my second test run, a few things have changed, that make it better actually so if you wish, I'll go take another one tomorrow if its not good enough for you. Also, PM Diesel JD... he has ridden in my truck up to about 95mph WOT, Boost gauge pinned on the stopper and EGT's at 1100.

Just because you dont have the knowledge or ability to build it, doesnt mean I dont

Just fast forward the video to 1:45 to skip a bunch of nothing....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGxTrYWTVrE

You can clearly see my pyro on the right of the boost gauge, and it never peaks over 1100... and although the boost gauge was maxxed there, I dont think I was over about 17-18psi. Since that video I timed it and made a few other ajustments that have easily pushed me up to 20+psi, WITH a functioning wastegate, and lowered EGT's.

 

[blown84]

PM sent to Typ4.

444, i apreciate the encouragement. nothin says it wont work, but nothin says it will either. lol. its an experiement, and thats how its gonna stay. i guess you could say, my questionin has been to find the best way to build it, then see if it works.

would openin the port to the pre chamber help my power out at all?

 

[Black dawg]

Ive always wanted to mod some prechambers. gm had a whole bunch of different chambers for the 6.2-6.5, and as the power went up, the hole into the chamber got bigger. From my experience, the 6.2s and 6.5s with the "small hole" prechambers got much better mpg.on the 20psi under 1100 comment, Ive seen 18psi at 1200 with a functionig gate on a factory setup with and injection pump that I modified. Big dowpipe and elbow dropped 100deg at 18psi .

 

[OLDBULL8]

Ive always felt that that little hole into the prechamber is what is holding power back.

You can open them up just a little and polishing that spout helps also. For every .001 opening is equal to .004 larger opening. Don't go over about .010 on a side tho, it will weaken it too much. Just don't try to do anything inside the precup, it needs to be rough for atomizing, breaks up the fuel into droplets. Takes alot of small grinding stones in a Dremel to do both heads. Also you should make some kind of a gage so each one is as close to each other. After opening the first one drive a small piece of wood in it, that makes like a collar on the stick for a depth/size gage.

Sorry about the HIjack. But this is possible on the 6.9, every little bit helps.

 

[OLDBULL8]

lot of people against the idea.. not sure I understand why though. You're making boost, same thing a turbo is meant to do. You're taking in cool air and while its not intercooled you arn't planning on supplying more boost than a factory turbo without an intercooler supplies. Sure you're gonna take some power to make it, but I think having a blower would be neater than hell. And if you lower the compression theres no reason you cant run more boost. It will be warm air so I guess you wouldn't want to overdo it.


can someone explain to me why this idea is getting shot down across the board? no one here has tried it but everyone "knows for a fact" its a terrible idea and wont work. it's different and may not deliver the wanted results, but whos to say it wont? and its not like he's just slapping a blower on a stock 6.9 and calling it good, he's asking for ideas. rough crowd in here.

Hey: I thought he wanted to know all about the IF'S AND'S and BUT'S about it. He can choose if he don't get an information overload.