moose power?

[NMB2]

I can say with 99% certainty that other members will back me up in saying 16-18psi of non cooled boost would melt your engine down, even if you could get it up that high in the first place. Don't get me wrong 16-18psi is attainable but you need to really know how to tune your turbocharger with your engine and fuel input to get it there. You really need to have seen a moose pump work in a truck to see just exactly how fast the EGT's climb when you get into full boost and the pedals on the floor. Personally I think the intercooler is just as important as the turbocharger is when you're going to be using a moose pump.

Fortunatly, thats not true at all. There are many trucks running that amount of boost without an intercooler, or EGT issues. My truck pushes 20psi at will, unloaded or loaded, and I cannot get my EGT's over 1100*

No intercooler.

 

[91idi]

There actually was a 6.9L diesel with a blower for sale on ebay a few years ago. From what I understood, it was making far less power than a turbo charger due to the power that was required to turn the blower. Although, I did hear about old Detroit diesels that ran blowers WITH turbochargers...maybe someone else on here knows more about that than me.


Also: Thanks mods for taking care of a little something.

That looks like Pig only with a blower!

 

[phazertwo]

I can say with 99% certainty that other members will back me up in saying 16-18psi of non cooled boost would melt your engine down, even if you could get it up that high in the first place. Don't get me wrong 16-18psi is attainable but you need to really know how to tune your turbocharger with your engine and fuel input to get it there. You really need to have seen a moose pump work in a truck to see just exactly how fast the EGT's climb when you get into full boost and the pedals on the floor. Personally I think the intercooler is just as important as the turbocharger is when you're going to be using a moose pump.

I would have disagree with you. If that were true than there would not be OBS PSD's with 200k miles on them EVERYWHERE! Also, producing 16+ PSI with a stock turbo is not very hard.

Running higher boost DOES increase heat going into the engine, however, it will not melt your engine down. Get an EGT gauge and just tune your junk....

PZ

 

[blown84]

ok. so im gettin kinda mixed response here. some say do it, and be exoctic, some say its physically impossible, and some say its more than possible with the right tunin, and some say the HP required to turn the blower will completely negate any gains i would get. sooo, what is it?

and, what is it thats so hard about makin big numbers with these motors?? the feb issue of diesel power features an old 12 valve with mechanical injection pushin over 1000 rear wheel hp. from 5.9L, and we are workin with a full liter to almost a liter and a half more more displacement. what gives?

now, with the previous two questions asked, im not a block head. for the first one it sounds like i should get a baby moose (or maybe a mini-moose that hits halfway inbetween???). and for the second, i realize these are some of the oldest, and simplest motors runnin, but the sheer lack of available power just boggles my mind, especially when readin articals like the one about that old 12 valve.

 

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

PZ He was asking about an IDI, I don't care what a PSD does, completely different engine different flow characteristics etc etc. Thats comparing apples to oranges. The "higher boost won't melt your engine down" statement is wrong. Higher boost CAN melt your engine down because with these engines more boost means more fuel, more fuel means hotter combustion burn and hotter combustion burn means hotter pistons hotter block and hotter valves. You CAN melt your engine down by running more boost.

I honestly worry about some of the stuff you guys say because people like the OP are going to read it and take it as truth. I don't know about you but I don't want to know that someone blew up their engine because of something I said without the knowledge or experience to back up. Don't go putting ideas into peoples head that can cause damage to their trucks and their lives.

I don't believe the "I'm running 16psi boost without climbing over 1100*" statement, unless you are talking about a push it to the floor for a second, watch it hit 16psi and let out of it kind of a run. With an IDI, its just not going to happen without an intercooler for a sustained period of time. I'm just not believing it. You do realize pyrometers can read wrong, especially depending on where its placed in the exhaust stream.

EDIT: Oh wow, I didn't realize NMB had said he was running 20 psi under 1100* without an intercooler I though he'd said 16psi. WOW Now I'm going to have to pull out the smiley.
Prove it, and from now on when you make a statement like that post the specs of your engine. Quit making dangerous blanket statements without any sort of evidence, where's the videos or write ups on all of these IDI's pushing over 16psi boost never climbing above 1100*EGT without an intercooler, or also in this case specs on your setup since you have supposedly done it.

 

[GenLightening]

It's mostly the differences between Indirect and Direct injection. Direct will almost always make more power, easier. Indierect isn't as efficient for horsepower gains.

 

[93fordturbo]

I second that question, i have been told you cant gain the power of a cummins over and over again, maybe i am a little dense or something, i just cant understand the concept. Why can't i get 300 to the rear wheel, or even 4 or 500??? even with some serious cash. I know with a 2nd gen cummins, you can get over 250 the the rear wheel virtually free! why?!!

 

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

ok. so im gettin kinda mixed response here. some say do it, and be exoctic, some say its physically impossible, and some say its more than possible with the right tunin, and some say the HP required to turn the blower will completely negate any gains i would get. sooo, what is it?

and, what is it thats so hard about makin big numbers with these motors?? the feb issue of diesel power features an old 12 valve with mechanical injection pushin over 1000 rear wheel hp. from 5.9L, and we are workin with a full liter to almost a liter and a half more more displacement. what gives?

now, with the previous two questions asked, im not a block head. for the first one it sounds like i should get a baby moose (or maybe a mini-moose that hits halfway inbetween???). and for the second, i realize these are some of the oldest, and simplest motors runnin, but the sheer lack of available power just boggles my mind, especially when readin articals like the one about that old 12 valve.

Same kind of response I gave to PZ's statement about PSDs running allot more boost than 16psi without an intercooler. You're talking apples and oranges. I can say my turbo Eclipse runs over 30psi boost pushing it past 500hp and almost the same torque and I drive it daily in the summer on pump gas while doing that. However, my Eclipse Idles at 1050*, it never cools down below that, it cruises at 1500* and I've pegged the pyro at 1600* a couple times. If you don't know what a turbo Eclipse has for an engine its a 4G63T Diamond Sport 4cyl gas motor with a cast iron block and a 16 valve DOHC aluminum head.
Every engine is different with different limitations and different power possibilities. Even so much as comparing an intercooled IDIT to a non intercooled IDIT is pushing the limits of comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare a IDI to a PSD just like you cant compare a PSD to a 12 valve or a 12 valve to a IDI or hell an IDI to a 4G63T. I'd never ever run an IDI at the temps my Eclipses engine cruises at, much less where it runs at WOT. Every engine is different, every engine is different, every engine is different.

These IH IDI's are heavy, everything in them is heavy, the heads don't flow well at all, there are just so many limitations within them that its difficult for me to explain to someone else, I'm not the teaching type. Hopefully someone I trust will chime in like Gary. If they tell me to chew on my words then I will, but I highly doubt it. By far Gary, Calvin or Mel are the most knowledgeable guys on here. When it comes down to the metal meeting the meat, and I need to know something that is absolutely accurate they are THE ONLY people I take advice from on here.

You guys need to quit comparing apples to oranges.

 

[blown84]

hell, an old 12 valve can put at or over 300 hp and just under 600 lb-ft FOR FREE. i dont get it either. is the IDI really THAT inefficient compaired to DI??

 

[93fordturbo]

I dont know much, like i said before, but i was told, by friends, diesel techs, and people on here that the key to more power in a diesel is fuel and air. Obviously that isn't all, but if a guy had a moose pump, or even a super moose, and big enough injectors to put all the fuel you want in the engins, and a big enough turbo to mix enough air with the fuel, and the motor was studded to all hell so it holds together, 300 or more hp to the wheels is still a far cry??

 

[blown84]

sean, please dont think im disregardin everything you are sayin. i realize the heads dont flow well. and i also plan on portin and polishin them. every little bit helps, and i intend to do every little bit.

gettin back to my previous previous post. lets say i back the moose all they way down, and run the blower at with a 1:1 pully set up, that would set me around 12 to 14 psi. my primary two concerns at this point: can the motor handle the EGTs without burnin valves, and is the power to turn the blower goin to negate the power i would gain?

 

[DeepRoots]

here is the only issue there "blown"
18psi under load is fine and dandy... in a normal turbo'd IDI it's possible when hauling a trailer up a mountain.
Blowers are RPM dependant. As such your going to be having 18psi all the time at a given engine speed. From an efficiency standpoint, it's retarded.

If you want to do it, cool. Take alot of pictures, I think it'd be fascinating. For me tho, if I wanted to make MEGA diesel power! I'd be looking elsewhere.

 

[blown84]

ok. maybe i should be more clear about what i want. first: to make a decent amount of power in a way that is uncommon. second: to make enough torque (im a torque freak. if i make only 200hp but have 5 to 600 lb-ft, id be more than happy) over a broad rpm range to make the guys with their new 6.7s, 6.4s, 6.6s and 6.9s wonder just what the hell im runnin. like i said, im all about torque. hp is only a measure of how quickly you can apply torque=accelleration. torque is what moves you, and your load down the road, at a constant pace. (im sure you all understand all this.)

NOW, am i off my rocker, in left feild, belong in a strait jacket, have no business around motors??? or maybe, just MAYBE, im i on to somethin?

*disclamer: SHOOT ME DOWN IF I AM WRONG. I WONT BE BUTT HURT.

 

[93fordturbo]

From what i understand also, is that the idis run high compression, so getting enough fuel to burn and not getting too hot would be difficult. And by lowering compression, it would get harder to start to the point where you wouldn't be able to start it worth a hoot. The trucks that have lower compression to start with are probably better for making more power... i think. ??

 

[blown84]

ok, kinda random in the middle of this, but can someone link me to a vid of mels misters?? i cant find it.

and you can lower the compression a few points and they will still start. all motors start "no boost." but i will keep the same compression.