f-two-fiddy
Registered User
IIFRC Dave wasn't even running boost on the Reviva's. If He was, it wasn't 20 PSI.
Mid 20s boost IDI !
- Thread starter 77f250diesel
- Start date
sle2115
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Just for the record, I'm not bashing anyone. Just seems fruitless to spend that kind of time and money on something, only to have your ass handed to you by someone who spent $400 on a chip and that will still be running long after your engine dies a horrible death. They weren't built to run that kind of boost, they were built for static compression.
And as for gassers, just the same. A mild SB chevy/ford/dodge would have still handed your 300 inline it's ass, even though you put all that money and time into it. Yes, unique, I'll give you that, but I have better things to do with my time, like drive my vehicles rather than trying to get 300 HP at $1000 per HP, when I can get it from stock elsewhere. Ultimately, would you like to see your IDI making 500 HP/1000 Ft/lbs? I just don't see that happening, but to each his own.
As far as my stock comment, I was pointing out that you were saying "my truck will run with a stock 6.0, OBS, 7.3, etc" well, if you put the same money in them ($1200 turbo versus chip and exhaust) you won't be running with them, that is all I am saying. Stop comparing modified to stock, it's not comparing apples to oranges.
And as for gassers, just the same. A mild SB chevy/ford/dodge would have still handed your 300 inline it's ass, even though you put all that money and time into it. Yes, unique, I'll give you that, but I have better things to do with my time, like drive my vehicles rather than trying to get 300 HP at $1000 per HP, when I can get it from stock elsewhere. Ultimately, would you like to see your IDI making 500 HP/1000 Ft/lbs? I just don't see that happening, but to each his own.
As far as my stock comment, I was pointing out that you were saying "my truck will run with a stock 6.0, OBS, 7.3, etc" well, if you put the same money in them ($1200 turbo versus chip and exhaust) you won't be running with them, that is all I am saying. Stop comparing modified to stock, it's not comparing apples to oranges.
sle2115
NRA LIFE MEMBER
newer truck owners in a older forum--what to do with them????
I'm not a newer truck owner, and since Mike pretty much runs the place, I expect to see him in every forum!
I notice he is keeping pretty quiet here though, smurking I'll bet!
77f250diesel
Full Access Member
I've got to agree with sle2115 that if your looking at this as a way to chase down PSDs or CTDs I think your kidding yourself.
With that being said, Dave S deserves alot of credit for pushing the envelope. IIRC he has abt. 4000.00 in his engine which is reasonable for a complete rebuild and we really don't know what his reliability or longevity will end up being.
No matter how you want to look at it he built a low compression idi with alot of boost that starts on cold mornings and has not lifted the heads or the intake manifold.
Just my .02
Dennis
With that being said, Dave S deserves alot of credit for pushing the envelope. IIRC he has abt. 4000.00 in his engine which is reasonable for a complete rebuild and we really don't know what his reliability or longevity will end up being.
No matter how you want to look at it he built a low compression idi with alot of boost that starts on cold mornings and has not lifted the heads or the intake manifold.
Just my .02
Dennis
sle2115
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Well said and I agree, and in my first post, merely asked what kind of numbers it turned? I thought that a fair question, maybe I was mistaken. I could probably hook an air compressor to the intake of my motor and show 20 PSI of boost, but doesn't mean it is doing anything for the numbers. Was just curious as to what kind of performance gains were being seen at the lower compression and higher boost numbers. If it is making 200 HP, with stock being 175, then I think it a waste of time, but if it is turning some impressive numbers...
Hey, I had an older truck,,,,albeit a PSD but it was first gen and low HP/TQ when I bought it. I did the mods and money dumping stuff into it and when all said and done it would pull in front of a new 6.0 psd or CTD that was stock all day long. I know darn good and well that a modded IDI would NOT run with my 95, no way shape or form. Not in HP, not in TQ and definetly not in reliability. And to further substantiate what you say, all the new truck owners have to do is plug in a 500 or 600 dollar module and they are right back out in front of my old 95 that I had dumped several GRAND in trying to get it to run with the big dogs.I'm not a newer truck owner, and since Mike pretty much runs the place, I expect to see him in every forum!
If you want to be unique thats cool with me, be unique. I like the guys that arent afraid to dump money into odd projects, old flat head v-8's and stuff like that. But dont get that flat head v-8 confused with an LS6, its not nor will it ever be in the same class.
77f250diesel
Full Access Member
He had an opportunity to do a dyno run at one point but he only had 500 mi. on it at that point and was running lower boost then. Your right, without knowing the gains there's no telling if it's worth it.
Dennis
I still would like to know how he is getting 20 plus psi with an ATS turbo. Even with the wastegate unhooked, I'd seriously doubt it'd make more than 15-18 psi max at WFO, fully loaded, pulling up a long steep hill.......and so on and so on...? If it is a "stock" ATS turbo....than I call
.
Heath
.Heath
Diesel JD
Full Access Member
I think I'm going to build a lowered compression 6.9 when I eventually have to replace the motor. Turbo pistons, balanced, turbo IDI rods, and upgraded bolts or headstuds, intercooler. I'm pretty happy with the IDI in stock trim and even more so with the turbo. I know that a lightly modified OBS powerstroke will still run all over me and that the most I can hope for with the IDI is to hang with the newer stock trucks.
Optikalillushun
Registered User
a PSD chokes out around what, 300 rwhp without going into big monies? i dont see an IDI being that far behind.
also, i think its kind of unfair to say "put X amount of dollars so n so did into a new truck and it will walk all over so n sos". dont forget, stock for stock isnt equal. let so n so add a turbo so things are now equal and see how it goes. of course a N/A diesel will get run over by a turbo'd diesel.
i think an aftermarket turbo kit put on a heatly IDI will run with a stock PSD. then allow some mods done to each and they will be close, and i dont see why running 20 lbs of boost is gunna be detrimental to the IDI daily. if the block is studded with good gaskets it'll hold unless the owner over fuels and melts it down but that can happen with any diesel.
also, i think its kind of unfair to say "put X amount of dollars so n so did into a new truck and it will walk all over so n sos". dont forget, stock for stock isnt equal. let so n so add a turbo so things are now equal and see how it goes. of course a N/A diesel will get run over by a turbo'd diesel.
i think an aftermarket turbo kit put on a heatly IDI will run with a stock PSD. then allow some mods done to each and they will be close, and i dont see why running 20 lbs of boost is gunna be detrimental to the IDI daily. if the block is studded with good gaskets it'll hold unless the owner over fuels and melts it down but that can happen with any diesel.
FordGuy100
Registered User
Well it depends on what year PSD. I know that Spartan performance just released a tune for the new 6.4TT PSD, and there test vehicle laid down 490hp and 860ft lbs of torque, with just the tune and dpf delete. Thats fricking crazy for under a grand.
But I would think that yes an OBS will lay down 300hp with just some simple cheap mods, exhaust, intake, and tuner/chip.
Diesel JD
Full Access Member
I'm hoping that some folks are going to have some experience with these highly modified 6.9/7.3 engines before I go there to see what the consequences of these modifications are long term.
Dave Sponaugle
Registered User
OK here I am.
Since I have a position over there, and my day job has me out of the house early and not back till late, I usually never make it to any other forums.
My truck has earned it's keep from day one, I have always been in construction or excavation.
At 300,000 miles, even though the original engine still ran fine it had developed an appetite for oil every time I was out on the interstate.
3.55 gears and a T 19 make for rather high RPM cruising at today's speeds.
Gallon of oil to run 100 miles at 2800 RPM.
So after looking at every option, none of the local machine shops wanted anything to do with an IDI overhaul.
I did find one, they said the turn around time would be 5 or 6 weeks, forget that, that would be like leaving my pants at the house for a month and a half.
I was at the local Ford Dealer and they had a Dealers Diesel poster behind the parts counter.
Found them online and sent an Email.
Yes you can buy this through www._ _ _ _.com
So I gave them a call and asked if I could do a 7.3 turbo upgrade trading in a 6.9 core.
Sure, price was 6995 delivered, with return shipping on the core included and a two year unlimited mileage warranty.
So the deal was struck, a couple mechanic buddies said for a few dollars we will help you install it in their shop.
Great, the engine arrived, drove the truck in the shop Saturday morning 7 AM, drove it out again at midnight that night.
Cool truck down one day, runs great with the turbo.
At 1700 miles, nice sweet smoke out of the exhaust, coolant blowing out of the recovery tank.
Called the 800 number, but Dealers Diesel had turned into Reviva.
No problem, we honor Dealers warranty, get the engine diagnosed it is probably a blown head gasket.
Turned out it was a cracked block, the sleeves had dropped in the block till it cracked.
OK we are sending another motor, cool.
So in goes the second engine.
At 9700 miles, white sweet smoke .......Uh you are not going to believe this but this engine is doing the same thing....get it diagnosed.
Cracked block, again the sleeves had dropped till the block cracked.
We are sending another motor.
So in it goes, by now an engine swap is under 10 hours, we all know exactly what we have to do to get it done.
17000 miles, here we go again, this is engine number 3 in 15 months and 28,000 miles.
Plus with the diagnose and shipping times, I have been walking three months out of 15.
The fourth engine arrives, this one is getting torn down before it goes in the truck.
So off come the heads, out of 8 cylinders 6 had been sleeved.
Then all the cylinders had been bored 20 over.
All of the sleeves were below the deck, you can see machine marks that say they were flush before the engine was assembled.
Sleeves had dropped and the engine had never been fired yet.
Warranty out in six months, I refused to install the engine.
We haggled for 2 months before they agreed to do a buyout and refund the core charge for the good core I had given them in the beginning.
Snow is flying, I gotta have an engine, NOW.
Salvage yard 6.9, unknown mileage.
In May I was driving down the street to my house and bang it drops a cylinder and is making terrible sounds, so I coast to the house.
Glow plugs out, crank the engine, no compression on #1 cylinder.
Valve cover off, push rods are bent so bad they will not come out of the head.
Head off, piston is rotated 80 degrees to the right in the cylinder, piston is cracked right through the center and the block is cracked where the piston crack ends at a coolant passage.
So I call my buddies that found the engine, one comes over and says let's call them before we do any more.
OK.....Wow a 6 month warranty on a salvage yard motor, cool.
So they send me another motor.
I am getting really tired of swapping motors and walking by now.
So this engine will be gone through before it goes in the truck, and since it appears that a national re builder that does thousands of engines a year can't get it right, I am doing it myself.
All of the Dealers Diesel/Reviva engines were turbo 7.3 engines set up at their factory to factory specs.
8 PSI boost and stock fuel delivery to answer that question by someone above.
In the time while I had the 7.3 engine in my truck, I had done a wet basement fix for the owner of a local machine shop.
He was one of the machine shops that wanted nothing to do with an IDI overhaul.
So I went over and told him all about the Reviva deal, the sleeves were why he did not do IDI overhaul work.
I then pointed out that I did not want a 7.3, I wanted a 6.9 with a minimum bore, just enough to give me fresh cylinders that were true.
Since the blocks were almost identical, with a minimum bore sleeves should not be needed.
So he said OK, I see where you are going, but I will not warranty the job.
I will do exactly what you want as far as machine work though if you accept my condition.
Cool, now all I ask is you do the machine work as good as I did the basement.
He looked at his partner and said this one has to be good, the basement has never leaked a drop since he did the work.
So we had a deal.
This is all the background story that got me to where I was at that time.
Supper is done, so I will post about the engine build in the next post after I eat.
Since I have a position over there, and my day job has me out of the house early and not back till late, I usually never make it to any other forums.
My truck has earned it's keep from day one, I have always been in construction or excavation.
At 300,000 miles, even though the original engine still ran fine it had developed an appetite for oil every time I was out on the interstate.
3.55 gears and a T 19 make for rather high RPM cruising at today's speeds.
Gallon of oil to run 100 miles at 2800 RPM.
So after looking at every option, none of the local machine shops wanted anything to do with an IDI overhaul.
I did find one, they said the turn around time would be 5 or 6 weeks, forget that, that would be like leaving my pants at the house for a month and a half.
I was at the local Ford Dealer and they had a Dealers Diesel poster behind the parts counter.
Found them online and sent an Email.
Yes you can buy this through www._ _ _ _.com
So I gave them a call and asked if I could do a 7.3 turbo upgrade trading in a 6.9 core.
Sure, price was 6995 delivered, with return shipping on the core included and a two year unlimited mileage warranty.
So the deal was struck, a couple mechanic buddies said for a few dollars we will help you install it in their shop.
Great, the engine arrived, drove the truck in the shop Saturday morning 7 AM, drove it out again at midnight that night.
Cool truck down one day, runs great with the turbo.
At 1700 miles, nice sweet smoke out of the exhaust, coolant blowing out of the recovery tank.
Called the 800 number, but Dealers Diesel had turned into Reviva.
No problem, we honor Dealers warranty, get the engine diagnosed it is probably a blown head gasket.
Turned out it was a cracked block, the sleeves had dropped in the block till it cracked.
OK we are sending another motor, cool.
So in goes the second engine.
At 9700 miles, white sweet smoke .......Uh you are not going to believe this but this engine is doing the same thing....get it diagnosed.
Cracked block, again the sleeves had dropped till the block cracked.
We are sending another motor.
So in it goes, by now an engine swap is under 10 hours, we all know exactly what we have to do to get it done.
17000 miles, here we go again, this is engine number 3 in 15 months and 28,000 miles.
Plus with the diagnose and shipping times, I have been walking three months out of 15.
The fourth engine arrives, this one is getting torn down before it goes in the truck.
So off come the heads, out of 8 cylinders 6 had been sleeved.
Then all the cylinders had been bored 20 over.
All of the sleeves were below the deck, you can see machine marks that say they were flush before the engine was assembled.
Sleeves had dropped and the engine had never been fired yet.
Warranty out in six months, I refused to install the engine.
We haggled for 2 months before they agreed to do a buyout and refund the core charge for the good core I had given them in the beginning.
Snow is flying, I gotta have an engine, NOW.
Salvage yard 6.9, unknown mileage.
In May I was driving down the street to my house and bang it drops a cylinder and is making terrible sounds, so I coast to the house.
Glow plugs out, crank the engine, no compression on #1 cylinder.
Valve cover off, push rods are bent so bad they will not come out of the head.
Head off, piston is rotated 80 degrees to the right in the cylinder, piston is cracked right through the center and the block is cracked where the piston crack ends at a coolant passage.
So I call my buddies that found the engine, one comes over and says let's call them before we do any more.
OK.....Wow a 6 month warranty on a salvage yard motor, cool.
So they send me another motor.
I am getting really tired of swapping motors and walking by now.
So this engine will be gone through before it goes in the truck, and since it appears that a national re builder that does thousands of engines a year can't get it right, I am doing it myself.
All of the Dealers Diesel/Reviva engines were turbo 7.3 engines set up at their factory to factory specs.
8 PSI boost and stock fuel delivery to answer that question by someone above.
In the time while I had the 7.3 engine in my truck, I had done a wet basement fix for the owner of a local machine shop.
He was one of the machine shops that wanted nothing to do with an IDI overhaul.
So I went over and told him all about the Reviva deal, the sleeves were why he did not do IDI overhaul work.
I then pointed out that I did not want a 7.3, I wanted a 6.9 with a minimum bore, just enough to give me fresh cylinders that were true.
Since the blocks were almost identical, with a minimum bore sleeves should not be needed.
So he said OK, I see where you are going, but I will not warranty the job.
I will do exactly what you want as far as machine work though if you accept my condition.
Cool, now all I ask is you do the machine work as good as I did the basement.
He looked at his partner and said this one has to be good, the basement has never leaked a drop since he did the work.
So we had a deal.
This is all the background story that got me to where I was at that time.
Supper is done, so I will post about the engine build in the next post after I eat.
Last edited:
FordGuy100
Registered User
That sucks you went through all those motors. Hopefully your current one will last you a long time.
Hurry up and eat so we can get the down low on this engine. And what kind of turbo? I wouldnt think you would push a factory ATS turbo to 20+psi, it wouldnt last all that long at that, plus it would be making some serious heat.
Hurry up and eat so we can get the down low on this engine. And what kind of turbo? I wouldnt think you would push a factory ATS turbo to 20+psi, it wouldnt last all that long at that, plus it would be making some serious heat.
Optikalillushun
Registered User
holy **** i didnt know u were here
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