flareside_thun
Reviving The General Tao
Enough with the chit-chat...where's the pics?
Mama woulda been proud
- Thread starter Boston
- Start date
flareside_thun
Reviving The General Tao
Dude, it's IDI....Besides, I'm sure we've ALL seen worse!
well I supose it does have the 7.3 IDI naturally aspirated in it so it does have a certain something to it
soon as I lifted the hood and saw what was in it I knew I was on to something although I had no idea what a cult following they have
the body is a joke though as is the interior so dont be expecting much
maybe tomorrow I'll take a few picts but imagine a 1990 250 with a really faded paint job, a few holes and dents in it
then add flaking paint and two really needy bumpers
crappy oversized tires
sagging drivers side window
runs like a top as long as its warm enough to start it
even gets good millage
blows smoke when its cold like you have never seen
POS
cheers
soon as I lifted the hood and saw what was in it I knew I was on to something although I had no idea what a cult following they have
the body is a joke though as is the interior so dont be expecting much
maybe tomorrow I'll take a few picts but imagine a 1990 250 with a really faded paint job, a few holes and dents in it
then add flaking paint and two really needy bumpers
crappy oversized tires
sagging drivers side window
runs like a top as long as its warm enough to start it
even gets good millage
blows smoke when its cold like you have never seen
POS
cheers
flareside_thun
Reviving The General Tao
Sounds like my truck except for the rust thing.....My passenger door sags BAD.
There is a small fuel heater in the top of the filter header, and the fuel pump should be mechanical.
On a hy-jack since we're talking about 250 vs 350, how much of a rake should a 250 have, my 4x4 had 3" difference front to rear (before I axe'd it), but my 2wd has 5 1/2" difference.
On Edit, I can't compare anything to my 350 cause the spring packs are about a foot thick.
On a hy-jack since we're talking about 250 vs 350, how much of a rake should a 250 have, my 4x4 had 3" difference front to rear (before I axe'd it), but my 2wd has 5 1/2" difference.
On Edit, I can't compare anything to my 350 cause the spring packs are about a foot thick.
ok been researching bits and pieces over the last few days
my thinking is that this used motor oil works like a charm in the old POS and if its free then its going into the tank. Going to clean it up some tho lest I wreck a perfectly good engine so
I found a centrifuge filter for $130
http://jmazecorponline.com/shop/index.php/cPath/79
found a 1/2 hp 600gph pump at harbor freight for $35 on sale
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=water+pump+
found a water fuel separator for $20 comes with filter which I'm hoping I can just drain rather than always have to replace
http://www.amazon.com/Seachoice®-Fuel-Water-Separator-Kit/dp/B000AWR4H0
found a duel remote filter rail here for $40 which I'm thinking I'll set up after the water separator with two different size filters and then on to the centrifuge
http://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Derale/D25707.html?feed=pn
and a relief valve for $20
I have a pressure gauge and a bunch of ball valves laying around somewhere
comes out to $245 before bits and pieces
I was also pondering a oil jacket around the pump to heat the oil as it goes rather than heat it with a take off from the engine oil system
thought I'd mount the fuel polishing system in this old crappy tool box or that came with the truck as well as an inverter for the pump ( haven't found one of those yet ). I'm hoping to maybe find a DC pump but so far the only ones I found are really expensive. Besides this pump should be strong enough to use as a transfer pump as well when it comes to collecting. Friend of mine has a handle on once used 55 gallons drums so I think I'll make a fuel tank out of one and stick it in the back, then transfer the cleaned fuel down to the aft tank, although eventually I'd like something a bit nicer.
oh
I decided to do the body work and make this thing a bit more presentable but since bondo is temp dependant I'l have to wait till spring. Paint job imminent.
anyway if any of you guys have had good or bad experience with any of those components I'd sure like to learn the easy way rather than the hard way
thanks
B
my thinking is that this used motor oil works like a charm in the old POS and if its free then its going into the tank. Going to clean it up some tho lest I wreck a perfectly good engine so
I found a centrifuge filter for $130
http://jmazecorponline.com/shop/index.php/cPath/79
found a 1/2 hp 600gph pump at harbor freight for $35 on sale
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=water+pump+
found a water fuel separator for $20 comes with filter which I'm hoping I can just drain rather than always have to replace
http://www.amazon.com/Seachoice®-Fuel-Water-Separator-Kit/dp/B000AWR4H0
found a duel remote filter rail here for $40 which I'm thinking I'll set up after the water separator with two different size filters and then on to the centrifuge
http://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Derale/D25707.html?feed=pn
and a relief valve for $20
I have a pressure gauge and a bunch of ball valves laying around somewhere
comes out to $245 before bits and pieces
I was also pondering a oil jacket around the pump to heat the oil as it goes rather than heat it with a take off from the engine oil system
thought I'd mount the fuel polishing system in this old crappy tool box or that came with the truck as well as an inverter for the pump ( haven't found one of those yet ). I'm hoping to maybe find a DC pump but so far the only ones I found are really expensive. Besides this pump should be strong enough to use as a transfer pump as well when it comes to collecting. Friend of mine has a handle on once used 55 gallons drums so I think I'll make a fuel tank out of one and stick it in the back, then transfer the cleaned fuel down to the aft tank, although eventually I'd like something a bit nicer.
oh
I decided to do the body work and make this thing a bit more presentable but since bondo is temp dependant I'l have to wait till spring. Paint job imminent.
anyway if any of you guys have had good or bad experience with any of those components I'd sure like to learn the easy way rather than the hard way
thanks
B
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Ok I ordered the centrifuge filter today as well as the remote double filter bracket. I picked up a transfer pump on sale ( ac ) and found two 1/4 HP DC motors I can slave together to run the 100 gph 150 psi Procon pump. That way I can run and recirculate semi clean fuel and finish filtering on board drawing off a day tank when on the road. Means I can pick up waste fuel on the go. and simply run it through a large particle filter before I throw it into the bed tank. Which will once filtered feed the aft stock tank, the forward tank being reserved for diesel
I'm about $200 into it at this point and my estimate of $300 is going to be low by about $100
the main pump motor is costing me about $60 plus the pump head which adds another $70
then I've got to get a DC filter heater which is about $70
that as well as a few bits and pieces which bring me up to a little over $400 total
then to find a descent bed tank in the 150~220 range which I dont absolutely have but it would be nice for road trips
cheers
I should be up and running within the month
B
I'm about $200 into it at this point and my estimate of $300 is going to be low by about $100
the main pump motor is costing me about $60 plus the pump head which adds another $70
then I've got to get a DC filter heater which is about $70
that as well as a few bits and pieces which bring me up to a little over $400 total
then to find a descent bed tank in the 150~220 range which I dont absolutely have but it would be nice for road trips
cheers
I should be up and running within the month
B
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You do realize that a centrifuge takes a minimum of at least 6 passes to begin cleaning whatever is going through it? If you are going to use that for cleaning going down the road, it is going to have to be in a closed loop , separate from the trucks fuel system, only recirculating into itself, so if you're pulling out of the tank and back into it, it will take you the better part of a day or so to actually run every bit of fuel in a large tank through the centrifuge enough times to make it fit for your truck, that's assuming you have a pump rated for bunker c that can move fuel the thickness of oil fast enough to operate a centrifuge.
So far , the only company I've found that has an actual pump designed for such purposes that will stand up and say so is Reverso Pumps their 312 gear pump with pressure relief - medium duty. I have been in contact with the owner and for alternative fuels service rating would be 50,000 hours, which is about the same as a normal pump running diesel
No where in any of the centrifuge literature does it say anything about six passes to begin the cleaning process. If you think about it a minute its really not logical that a "primer" pass would make any sense at all. It does mention the need to preheat the fluid to be cleaned and the temperature of the fluids being relative to viscosity and so the effectiveness of the centrifuge. I am planing on preheating the fluid to 100°F or whatever the recommended temp range for oil and pump head might be with a heat exchanger. As I mentioned the main tank is separate from the "day" tanks. Of course I have a pump head rated for both the flow and pressure needed ( it was the main criteria for the selection )
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-5843-procon-pump-brass-100-gph-38-npt-150-psi-relief-valve.aspx
actually I went a bit high on both parameters and just today got two fluid pressure regulators to help me keep things working at there maximum efficiency. I also ordered the DC motors that will be mated to the pump head with pulley's of the appropriate size to allow the motors to spin at there design speed and the pump head to operate within its proper RPM range. Designing a filter is no stroke of genius my friend. Its mostly common sense, but I appreciate all the information I can get so no worries.
By the way there are numerous brands of geared pump heads designed for power take offs that will move fluids of the viscosity of motor oil. IE farm waste. Check the farm supply houses for cheap parts and you might just save yourself a few bucks. The pump that is sold with the centrifuge ( $329+ ) was a 1/3 HP AC motor and had a small ( 1/4 fittings 100 psi and 1.5 GPM at working pressure ) geared pump head attached to it. The set up I'm working on has two ( I might add a third ) 1/4 HP DC motors at ~$20 bucks each married together. Slight savings there eh. I then went to an on line farm supply supplier for the geared pump head which is stronger than the one sold with the unit. 150 PSI 100 PGM 3/8 fittings ) I did so because I'm running two pre-filters ahead of the centrifuge to remove large contaminants. I will be paying about $120~$140 bucks for a motor and pump head that is stronger and heavier than the one sold with the centrifuge for a total of something like a third of what I would be charged at the cheapest of the online bio-diesel supply places. I can shunt the extra volume and pressure to circulate the heat exchanger and end up with a system that works even when the filters are half clogged and the fluid is not up to temp yet.
Most of the time when I'm processing fuel on board I'll simply plug the truck in at home, but I want the convenience of being able to process on board when I'm on the road. At 60 gpm ( I think it was ) I should be able to complete one pass on the main tank every three or four hours and have the fuel clean enough for use by the second pass. I'll likely let the system recirculate just for good measure. So even if it takes more than a couple of passes I'm not to worried about getting the fuel clean enough with the system as designed at the moment. Testing the finish product will of course be the only way to really know how clean I'm getting the stuff
cheers
B
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-5843-procon-pump-brass-100-gph-38-npt-150-psi-relief-valve.aspx
actually I went a bit high on both parameters and just today got two fluid pressure regulators to help me keep things working at there maximum efficiency. I also ordered the DC motors that will be mated to the pump head with pulley's of the appropriate size to allow the motors to spin at there design speed and the pump head to operate within its proper RPM range. Designing a filter is no stroke of genius my friend. Its mostly common sense, but I appreciate all the information I can get so no worries.
By the way there are numerous brands of geared pump heads designed for power take offs that will move fluids of the viscosity of motor oil. IE farm waste. Check the farm supply houses for cheap parts and you might just save yourself a few bucks. The pump that is sold with the centrifuge ( $329+ ) was a 1/3 HP AC motor and had a small ( 1/4 fittings 100 psi and 1.5 GPM at working pressure ) geared pump head attached to it. The set up I'm working on has two ( I might add a third ) 1/4 HP DC motors at ~$20 bucks each married together. Slight savings there eh. I then went to an on line farm supply supplier for the geared pump head which is stronger than the one sold with the unit. 150 PSI 100 PGM 3/8 fittings ) I did so because I'm running two pre-filters ahead of the centrifuge to remove large contaminants. I will be paying about $120~$140 bucks for a motor and pump head that is stronger and heavier than the one sold with the centrifuge for a total of something like a third of what I would be charged at the cheapest of the online bio-diesel supply places. I can shunt the extra volume and pressure to circulate the heat exchanger and end up with a system that works even when the filters are half clogged and the fluid is not up to temp yet.
Most of the time when I'm processing fuel on board I'll simply plug the truck in at home, but I want the convenience of being able to process on board when I'm on the road. At 60 gpm ( I think it was ) I should be able to complete one pass on the main tank every three or four hours and have the fuel clean enough for use by the second pass. I'll likely let the system recirculate just for good measure. So even if it takes more than a couple of passes I'm not to worried about getting the fuel clean enough with the system as designed at the moment. Testing the finish product will of course be the only way to really know how clean I'm getting the stuff
cheers
B
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You really need to do some research on centrifuges ( I have, being in the oil business, I keep up on the competition's products 
When you get past all the boasting, not a single one of them can claim to clean in any less than 6 passes, and even then it's not a complete clean, 6 is the bare minimum . They are really not designed for fuel, they are designed for lube oil as a bypass system cleaner where they do a pretty decent job but they rely on constant recirculation and can't extend oil changes as long as conventional bypass filtration because contaminants buildup a little more on each pass more than can be removed, but like a lot of things, theyve been pressed into service in a lot of areas where they don't shine very well, not to mention that they do nothing to remove water. If trying to save money you would be better off with a couple of goldenrod filters with waterbloc elements. at least you would have single pass filtering ability and water removal.
Pumps and things available on biodiesel and veggie sites are rarely suitable long term . Those guys have been constantly trying to reinvent the wheel since the start of the alternative fuel craze, when they had no experience with heavy diesels to start with and didn't know that most of what they were needing was already available to the heavy truck, equipment and marine market
I know you plan on pre heating the stuff, so do most folks, but inevitably, everyone forgets to purge now and then and runs cold veg and it kills the pumps..
I ran some of the first veggie burner cars around , no kits, so I do have a bit of experience with this stuff.
When you get past all the boasting, not a single one of them can claim to clean in any less than 6 passes, and even then it's not a complete clean, 6 is the bare minimum . They are really not designed for fuel, they are designed for lube oil as a bypass system cleaner where they do a pretty decent job but they rely on constant recirculation and can't extend oil changes as long as conventional bypass filtration because contaminants buildup a little more on each pass more than can be removed, but like a lot of things, theyve been pressed into service in a lot of areas where they don't shine very well, not to mention that they do nothing to remove water. If trying to save money you would be better off with a couple of goldenrod filters with waterbloc elements. at least you would have single pass filtering ability and water removal.Pumps and things available on biodiesel and veggie sites are rarely suitable long term . Those guys have been constantly trying to reinvent the wheel since the start of the alternative fuel craze, when they had no experience with heavy diesels to start with and didn't know that most of what they were needing was already available to the heavy truck, equipment and marine market
I know you plan on pre heating the stuff, so do most folks, but inevitably, everyone forgets to purge now and then and runs cold veg and it kills the pumps..
I ran some of the first veggie burner cars around , no kits, so I do have a bit of experience with this stuff.
Ya I kinda felt like there using a minimum requirement motor and pump head was a bad idea. Even there next better system looked pretty shaky. You have me on experience with these types of filters and yes I was also planing a large water separator as well, but I do have more experience than I care to admit in the farming biz and I've used my share of geared pumps. They are pretty tough depending on if its all metal construction and if it got enough power behind it. I've seen em grind up mice, bones, rocks and just about anything else they manage to catch. Its all in the motor and how well you prestrain the intake. I'm thinking that pump head I chose probably would be comfortable with a 2 HP motor if it proves out that way.
my water separator is not the centrifuge but a separate unit that can be monitored to see if its full and drained easily. The pre filters are specifically because of the centrifuges sensitivity to large particles and to reduce the number of cleanings it takes to get one load of fuel clean. I'm hoping to get 200 gallons per set of filters and cleaning.
If you have anything I should read about the centrifuges I'm all about learning what I can so feel free to throw some dissenting opinions my way. I'd prefer to learn the easy way than the having to make my own mistakes.
cheers
B
oh
maybe I didn't mention that I was going to be running WMO through this thing so its pretty much doing exactly what it was designed to do. The pump and motor they sell with it on the other hand is not doing what its designed to do and so I got creative as I have some experience with that end of the deal.
my water separator is not the centrifuge but a separate unit that can be monitored to see if its full and drained easily. The pre filters are specifically because of the centrifuges sensitivity to large particles and to reduce the number of cleanings it takes to get one load of fuel clean. I'm hoping to get 200 gallons per set of filters and cleaning.
If you have anything I should read about the centrifuges I'm all about learning what I can so feel free to throw some dissenting opinions my way. I'd prefer to learn the easy way than the having to make my own mistakes.
cheers
B
oh
maybe I didn't mention that I was going to be running WMO through this thing so its pretty much doing exactly what it was designed to do. The pump and motor they sell with it on the other hand is not doing what its designed to do and so I got creative as I have some experience with that end of the deal.
I haven't saved any of teh centrifuge info , but it]s pretty easy to find on some of the manufacturers sites. They usually have it buried in FAQ sections and the like, but never listed in specs out in teh open. The shortest filtration time I've seen posted is 6 passes and the more conservative units have listed 12-20 passes, so 6 would be considered a bare minimum, especially when you consider the internal construction of the things is all basically the same.
You will need to have your pickup on the bottom on one end for filtration with a return loop dropping in the top at the other end to keep it circulating and it would take a few days to completely process 150-200 gal going downthe road, then a separate setup to pump to the engine.
If you can weld aluminum , scrap metal yards are a great place to get fuel tanks.I picked up my 150 gal bed tank that came off a Volvo semi at a scrap metal yard and it just had a little curb bonk in the bottom at the front. I got it for $0.87 a pound, or 87 bucks
I went to a regular big truck wrecking yard and got a set of tank straps and welded the frame mount to teh bed and drilled a hole for the eye bolt and tensioned it through the bed so it's DOT complient
You will need to have your pickup on the bottom on one end for filtration with a return loop dropping in the top at the other end to keep it circulating and it would take a few days to completely process 150-200 gal going downthe road, then a separate setup to pump to the engine.
If you can weld aluminum , scrap metal yards are a great place to get fuel tanks.I picked up my 150 gal bed tank that came off a Volvo semi at a scrap metal yard and it just had a little curb bonk in the bottom at the front. I got it for $0.87 a pound, or 87 bucks
I went to a regular big truck wrecking yard and got a set of tank straps and welded the frame mount to teh bed and drilled a hole for the eye bolt and tensioned it through the bed so it's DOT complient I've got one of those cheaper clear water pumps for basic recirculating. its 600 gph but probably is sensitive to cold fluid viscosity issues just as you suggested. I'll have to go search out some info on the centrifuge filters but even if they are not so hot I can always add filter capacity with more typical filter elements mounted remotely.
My neighbor is an unemployed welder/artist, he's really talented. Has offered to weld up a fuel tank with a filter compartment when I feel like I got it down. For now I'm setting up in a few 55 gallon drums till I get the system dialed in. Then I'll let him get silly with a bed tank. I'm thinking stock tank shaped to aid in circulation with a clean out port and some kind of vented filter compartment. Haven't got to far into that yet. Staying focused on designing the filter system first then I'll plan out the whole package
I was a general contractor for a long time so I have a handle on cheap steal. I think plate is 0.39C lb new and around 0.20 as scrap. I built a machine shop for a friend of mine a while ago and he's got great suppliers. As for attaching it to the bed I have a few tricks up my sleeve there as well. Used to drive a lot of large trailers when I had the ranch and one thing, kinda rule of thumb in the farm community is if your carrying something really nasty and you get in a wreck you kinda want it to go flying elsewhere.
We always blocked the fuel tanks in but never bolted them in. You want that fuel as far away from you as possible in case anything really ugly went wrong. Its illegal as all hell but its safer, unless your on a crowded highway which we generally were not.
cheers
B
My neighbor is an unemployed welder/artist, he's really talented. Has offered to weld up a fuel tank with a filter compartment when I feel like I got it down. For now I'm setting up in a few 55 gallon drums till I get the system dialed in. Then I'll let him get silly with a bed tank. I'm thinking stock tank shaped to aid in circulation with a clean out port and some kind of vented filter compartment. Haven't got to far into that yet. Staying focused on designing the filter system first then I'll plan out the whole package
I was a general contractor for a long time so I have a handle on cheap steal. I think plate is 0.39C lb new and around 0.20 as scrap. I built a machine shop for a friend of mine a while ago and he's got great suppliers. As for attaching it to the bed I have a few tricks up my sleeve there as well. Used to drive a lot of large trailers when I had the ranch and one thing, kinda rule of thumb in the farm community is if your carrying something really nasty and you get in a wreck you kinda want it to go flying elsewhere.
We always blocked the fuel tanks in but never bolted them in. You want that fuel as far away from you as possible in case anything really ugly went wrong. Its illegal as all hell but its safer, unless your on a crowded highway which we generally were not.
cheers
B
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