It's official-- I HATE this M'F'n truck!!!!

defecater

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Could use some encouragement or advise here

Truck in question is a 93 F-350 2wd crewcab dually with a 7.3 and a Banks Sidewinder setup.

This is my first diesel, other than a couple of parts trucks. Bought it back in July with a bad E4OD and blowing substantial amounts of white smoke- also hard to start (without starting fluid) and running pretty rough untill it warmed up.

Dont like automatics anyway, so it seemed to be a great candidate for swapping in a stick. Did a bit of research on the web (including here) about the smoke issue and thought it was a good gamble it was just an injector issue- For the price I paid for the truck, it was worth it even if the engine was internally bad, as it was a texas truck and I am in the rust belt.

Since getting it home, it has sat on my gooseneck trailer inside my shed while I worked on it when I had time. I swapped in a T-19 and a DNE overdrive unit. Diagnosed it with two bad glow plugs, but I changed them all out for some Motorcraft units, The previous owner said it didnt put out much heat in the winter, so I put in a new thermostat and while the coolant was drained, put in a coolant filter and got rid of the factory heater hose mounted heater and put in a block heater (freeze plug) did a few other things to it too, like move the EGT and boost gauge to a more easily visible place, and removed the non functioning power windows for some hand crank units-- as a side note, it seemed like there was always some issue, no matter what item I happened to be working on, that would hinder me every step of the way.

Anyhow, I was thinking I would finish buttoning up the coolant system earlier this afternoon and get it fired up and off the trailer so I could move on with the (hopefully) injector issue next, but not so. First thing I noticed was that the "wait to start" light wasnt going off- before I worked on it, it would go off after several seconds. (is it possible there is just a pocket of air in the cooling system where the sensor is mounted that is keeping it from getting a reading of the coolant temp?? Next problem was that it wouldnt even crank- no signal to the starter solenoid on the fender. I assumed the neutral safety switch was in the column, but maybe not??? was it maybe in the transmission itself and now I need to splice a wire or two together in the harness that used to run to the E4OD?? Obviously I did have to somewhat remove the existing column to get the clutch pedal assembly in, and that has me wondering if I neglected to hook some wiring back in, or worse, messed something up. I finally just ran a couple of jumper wires into the cab with me to try and start it, then found that it wouldnt crank over very well. The batteries in it look like they have some age, so I will take them into town and get them checked tomorrow and go from there.

Anybody have some helpfull words of wisdom for me about the no crank situation and the "wait to start" light staying on?? (I do know that I can burn up the glow plugs, so I tried not to keep the key on for any longer than neccesary- maybe 10 seconds at the most.

I was pretty damn pissed after all this, and had to blow off some steam by taking out a couple of my larger rifles and burning off some rounds- girlfriend had to go out and see if I shot the truck full of holes!!!
 

FordGuy100

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Yeah sounds like nuetral safety switch. You could, if you want, just run a power from the battery, to a momentary on switch in the cab, then to the starter relay on the fender. I did that when my key went bad (turn power on, but wont turn the starter over). Works for me.
 

Mat J

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10 seconds for glow plugs is normal for me even in 80 outside. because you had bad plugs it makes it turn off faster. let it go for 15 sec and see what happens.
 

defecater

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Thanks for the replies so far. So if the neutral safety switch was in the transmission, does anyone have some advice/scematics/diagrams to help me out with what wires on the remaining harness I need to splice together to connect the circuit??
 

JwS

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Hey, you've done alot of good work already, these last issues don't seem too bad. It does sound like it is probably a neutral safety issue, a little research on the wiring harness will locate that. Same for the GPs, if they sorta worked before, then with new ones you should be no worse, just check all the wires that go to the controller, etc.
Sometimes it pays to just step back, have a beer and let yourself think it through!
And there is always the hotwire option on both of those!

JwS
 

Fordsandguns

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Do you still have the harness under the truck for the auto? If so, and if you still have the auto trans, you can just pull the safety switch off it and hook it back up. Find where it lets the truck crank and then zip tie it to the frame. This is what I did.
 

defecater

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Do you still have the harness under the truck for the auto? If so, and if you still have the auto trans, you can just pull the safety switch off it and hook it back up. Find where it lets the truck crank and then zip tie it to the frame. This is what I did.

This is kinda what I wanted to hear, but I didnt notice any kind of neutral safety switch on the tranny I took out- wasnt really looking for one either though. I will check the old tranny tomorrow. I have a friend with a 89-91 ish f-250 that swapped out the E4OD for a 4 speed and he told me he just tied up the existing wiring and it worked fine. Maybe he had the forethought to include the safety switch off the transmission too. Funny thing is, I have dealt with enough C-6 transmissions in my life, that you think I would have noticed an externally mounted neutral safety switch on an E4OD.
 

DeepRoots

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especially since the c6 has such an obvious wiring connector plugged into a switch which kinda shows that the transmission is in park and can be started.
 

LCAM-01XA

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This is kinda what I wanted to hear, but I didnt notice any kind of neutral safety switch on the tranny I took out- wasnt really looking for one either though. I will check the old tranny tomorrow. I have a friend with a 89-91 ish f-250 that swapped out the E4OD for a 4 speed and he told me he just tied up the existing wiring and it worked fine. Maybe he had the forethought to include the safety switch off the transmission too. Funny thing is, I have dealt with enough C-6 transmissions in my life, that you think I would have noticed an externally mounted neutral safety switch on an E4OD.
The E4OD switch actually looks very similar to the C6 switch, and unless you pulled the whole PCM and transmission harness off the truck you should still be able to actually take its plug apart and twist wires together to make the truck start. And since we're discussing the MLPS-related issues, do you have backup lights? Cause those work off he MLPS too...
 

DeepRoots

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when I swapped from c6 to a zf5, I kept the switch that indicates the trans being in park.
I sealed it from moisture and kept it.... I use it as a anti-theft protection unit :)

but I also leave my truck for months in weird places.
 

6 Nebraska IDIs

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If you still have the harness in the truck and the switch on the trans then plug it into the harness and zip tie it so the circuit is completed. Me personally, I just hotwire stuff like that. I'd pull the plug apart and bypass that circuit. But I like the idea of a theft protection switch. :)
 

Agnem

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As has been stated, both the starter circuit, and the backup lights go through that switch that was mounted to your transmission. There are some wiring diagrams in my albums that may help. Batteries in trucks that don't get used for weeks at a time need a battery tender on them constantly. I've started doing that to my two garage queens and they spin over like they never did before. I got the ones from http://batterytender.com I already had to make use of their 10 year warranty, and the unit was replaced at no cost with a brand new one. The factory controller will keep the glow plugs on for a really long time if the battery voltage is low. With a full charge though, the max you should see is around 17 seconds in cold weather. That's about the longest I would voluntarily let them go. If they go longer than that, then get yourself a new GPC. The 7.3 system is very robust as long as you have good glow plugs, and good wiring. It uses a current sensing system to determine the "on" time. To test, construct a way to measure the voltage at your #2 glow plug (the plug must stay connected). Have an assitant turn the key on while you monitor the voltage at this plug. It should start out around 6 or 7 volts and slowly climb towards 11 or 12. The voltage it starts out at, and the length of time it takes between minimum and maximum will give us some idea of the health of your system if you were to report it back.
 

defecater

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I AM SOFA KING WE TODD DID!!!

Like you all told me, there is indeed a neutral safety switch on the transmission- pretty blatantly obvious too. Only explanation I can come up with for not noticing it is that a friend came over that day to help me pull the tranny out, and I am pretty much used to working alone. Maybe we were blabbing too much for me to pay proper attention???

Loaded up the batteries in the back of my MGB for a trip into town to get them checked out--- Both were shot so I got new ones.

Got home and put them in, then let the glow plugs do their thing- they did shut off after about 12-13 seconds by my count, and the rig fired right up--WOO HOOO!!!

I have run into two other problems now--

Concerning the coolant filter. I used the water pump nipple as the source for the input side of the filter housing then fed the output into the heater core, then ran the other heater core line into the cylinder head. As the engine was warming up, I noticed the line coming from the cylinder head was warming up faster than the line on the water pump. Do I have this backwards?? Does the flow come OUT of the cylinder head and RETURN to the water pump?? And if so, what are the odds that I damaged the filter by running the flow through it backwards??

Other problem is concerning the clutch- Apparently it is not disengaging completely. As soon as I put it in reverse, it started moving before I started letting the clutch out. I went ahead and backed it off the trailer into the yard and found that I couldnt get ANY of the forward gears unless I shut the engine off to shift into them. I remember back when I got the transmission in, I thought the end of the clutch fork seemed like it sat back further than it should, in my opinion. Then when I got my clutch pedal assembly and hydraulics from the boneyard, it seemed like the slave cylinder popped into place much easier than others I have done in the past. Is it possible I have the wrong throwout bearing and I need one that is "thicker"?? I sourced the entire T-19, bellhousing and flywheel from a 85-86 ish 6.9, and bought a new clutch kit with a 12 inch disk(original was 11)

on a happier note, it doesnt seem to smoke as bad as I remember when I bought it (probably my imagination though- you know, you want ot see something so bad, that your mind makes you see it, like people getting shot in the woods because others thought they were a deer)
 
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