IP Adjustment for timing purposes.

[FORDF250HDXLT]

Plenty of threads on fuel screws, I won't muddy this thread/tech 101 with anything except IP and timing.

your not.
adjusting the internal fuel screw also alters timing of the ip and the ip will need to checked and adjusted if nessesary after altering the fuel screw too.

fyi;
with a timing meter on my personal setup, 8.5 BTDC has the factory timing marks "appear" as if the engine is ever so slightly retarded.
so just keep in mind a dimes thickness is only a general rule of thumb of what some others will have.
without a correct timing tool....i confess.i can't get set it worth a lick,but it wasn't for lack of trying.

 

[riotwarrior]

your not.
adjusting the internal fuel screw also alters timing of the ip and the ip will need to checked and adjusted if nessesary after altering the fuel screw too.

fyi;
with a timing meter on my personal setup, 8.5 BTDC has the factory timing marks "appear" as if the engine is ever so slightly retarded.
so just keep in mind a dimes thickness is only a general rule of thumb of what some others will have.
without a correct timing tool....i confess.i can't get set it worth a lick,but it wasn't for lack of trying.

Please...understand this is just about the physical timing of the IP, not fuel settings or anything else, as mentioned there are other threads if you search that cover that. Also in a future pictutorial I may cover that aspect, this one is strictly IP timing advance and retard...

Thanks

Al

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

understood AL.
good writeup.keep on keeping on brother.

 

[Clb]

This would make a good sticky.. glad i finally found it.

 

[058hammer]

Thanks, I'll get another photo of wrench on said boss...edit thread accordingly...good tip!

Thanks again


As for the Canadian dime.... its all I had...no American dimes here today and I used what I had

I emphasized the Canadian dime as I don't know how thick a US dime is in comparison...that's all...

If you need one send me a SASE and I'll mail one back to ya...though you best be mailing me a US dime and a penny in exchange



NOPE...it didn't...but thanks for reading it.

My F250 is Canadian built so is a Canadian dime a must for me?

 

[gdhillon]

So once the pump is on those three studs and bolted up to the three 5/8 bolts under the gear cover, it can be turned?.....this part doesn't make sense to me I thought it is all one fixed unit but I guess when I get in there and move it my confusion will be cleared.

From what I see in your pictures, towards the drivers side is retarding it?

 

[Mulochico]

Drivers side is retarding/Passenger is advancing.

The holes that the 3 studs on the ip go thru are elongated for adjustment

 

[gandalf]

So once the pump is on those three studs and bolted up to the three 5/8 bolts under the gear cover, it can be turned?.....this part doesn't make sense to me I thought it is all one fixed unit but I guess when I get in there and move it my confusion will be cleared.

From what I see in your pictures, towards the drivers side is retarding it?

Gavin--
I'll be attaching a picture. You have the right idea, I think, but don't realize that the IP doesn't need to be turned very much. The setup will not allow much rotation.

In the picture, the three holes closest to the center accept the bolts coming through from the front. Those bolts hold the IP solidly to the timing gear, with no allowance for movement between the two. These holes are threaded.

The three holes toward the outer edge are oblong, not threaded. The bolts for these holes go through from the rear, and thread into the gear housing. These are the three which require a special or modified wrench. Since they go through the IP flange, but are not actually attached to it, they allow the IP to rotate a slight bit when they're loose. When you rotate the IP this way you're rotating the timing gear it's attached to from the front. The three bolts from the rear clamp the IP in place and prevent it from moving.

Turning the top of the IP toward the passenger's side advances the timing. As I recall, rotating it about the width of a dime equals about 2°. This works for Canadian dimes too!!

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[riotwarrior]

As I recall, rotating it about the width of a dime equals about 2°. This works for Canadian dimes too!!

You must be registered for see images attach

Perhaps we should refrain from saying width...as I've said before cause that's just too much, but the THICKNESS be it American or Canadian dime works much better for me!

 

[icanfixall]

Shall we say move the pump 1/16 of an inch and bedone with the width crap..... BTW someone above posted something about three 5/8 inch bolts under the gear cover... Nope.. Nope... Not so.. Those three drive bolts are 5/16 and they are a 12 point hex head bolt that requires 25 lbs of torque to keep tight. This is noplace you was a loose fit. A member did remove the cover to reach those three bolts once and they had backed off till till they rubbed the cover plate.. Thats a lucky guy right there.

 

[riotwarrior]

Just did this lil video for ya'll to see and maybe understand how the turning of the pump affects timing and does not turn the IP gear in the housing and pistons don't move either!
http://youtu.be/2wUAg-VP0WE

I know my description is off in places...bottom line


turning pump only changes where the pulse of fuel from the IP gets spent in relation to the pistons position in the engine.

Al

 

[gandalf]

Good video, Al. The original write-up was excellent, and now you've topped it off with the video which has further explanation.

A couple point and comments.

I remember that we once had a thread in which we debated at great length the terminology of width, thickness, and all other measurements of a dime, both US and Canadian. According the standard we set at that time, and which you followed above, I used the wrong term. You've illustrated the differences very well.

In your video you stressed that the timing gear was NOT turning in conjunction with the IP as you were turning it. I would stress equally that this was the case purely because you had removed the 5/16th bolts which normally lock them together. With those bolts in place the IP and the timing gear ARE locked together and will rotate in conjunction with each other, as a single unit. However, when they are locked together, the innards of the IP can still turn/rotate. This is, in effect, what you are doing when you turn/twist the IP to adjust and/or align the timing marks. You're changing the relationship of the innards of the IP and the casing of the IP, causing the fuel pulse to change slightly.

That wasn't all that clear, was it?

The other thing I'd like to mention, though it bears only peripherally, is that rotating the IP becomes harder once the hard lines are connected to the injectors. I had to fight mine a bit that way.

Again, a very good job, Al.

 

[gdhillon]

Thanks guys, now its all coming together in my mind. I am a more of a visual/hands on learner so I can't thank you enough for the video and pictures explanation.

I don't know any other forum that has guys that are willing to go out of their way of their daily activities to teach a guy a thing or to...its just awesome, I am really glad I'm a part of this brotherhood of oilburners.net.

So Ken, what your saying is to get the IP on and those marks lined up then loosly attach the hard lines to the injectors?

Thanks again guys, that helped a lot now I actually feel as though I know what im doing and not just blindly "changing toilet paper rolls" lol

 

[riotwarrior]

Good video, Al. The original write-up was excellent, and now you've topped it off with the video which has further explanation.

A couple point and comments.

I remember that we once had a thread in which we debated at great length the terminology of width, thickness, and all other measurements of a dime, both US and Canadian. According the standard we set at that time, and which you followed above, I used the wrong term. You've illustrated the differences very well.

In your video you stressed that the timing gear was NOT turning in conjunction with the IP as you were turning it. I would stress equally that this was the case purely because you had removed the 5/16th bolts which normally lock them together. With those bolts in place the IP and the timing gear ARE locked together and will rotate in conjunction with each other, as a single unit. However, when they are locked together, the innards of the IP can still turn/rotate. This is, in effect, what you are doing when you turn/twist the IP to adjust and/or align the timing marks. You're changing the relationship of the innards of the IP and the casing of the IP, causing the fuel pulse to change slightly.

That wasn't all that clear, was it?

The other thing I'd like to mention, though it bears only peripherally, is that rotating the IP becomes harder once the hard lines are connected to the injectors. I had to fight mine a bit that way.

Again, a very good job, Al.

thanks.

however I will dissagree with you on the pump not turning gears as the pin to locate it on the pump shaft gear combo locks them together I did it this way to prove a point however I can redo the video with the thre 5/16 bolts in place to show that turning Ip only rotates the ip housing on the ip internal shaft and does not cause the gear to move if you like.

if the ip caused the ear to move you would be turning an engine over by hand by doing so.

JM2CW

Al

 

[gandalf]

...

So Ken, what your saying is to get the IP on and those marks lined up then loosly attach the hard lines to the injectors?

...

That's a good question. I'm not sure there is a standard and recommended way to do this. When I did this I removed the lines from the old IP as two units, the entire right bank of 4 lines clamped together and the entire left bank of 4 lines clamped together. I then attached them to the new IP, each set, being clamped together by their anti-vibration clamps, in a relatively right position. I never dealt with a single hard line, only two sets of four. I tightened them down on the IP that way, in a position close enough to correct that it worked for me.

As they say, your mileage may vary.

There is actually a tool made to tighten those lines on the IP after installation. If you can install the IP with all eight lines loose then it's much easier to turn, meets no resistance from the hard lines. In the attached picture that tool is in the lower right corner. It's a specially designed deep, open sided socket which can reach in under the hard lines to tighten the lines on the bottom after the IP is installed.

You must be registered for see images attach

I'm not lucky enough to own this set. I had to borrow it.