Injection pump removal with timing gear

[icanfixall]

Russ I'm thinking your using the Dot word in place of the Y word for marks. the dot is the alignment mark for the crank. The Y mark is the alignment mark for the cam to injection pump gear. I know you understand this but many others wont because they have never seen the marks or had these engines apart like you and I have. My pictures show these marks clearly and I really hope members wont do the housing, gear and pump removel. Even if they remove the pump from the gear and housing afteer they have it all apart they still wont really know for sure what the gear timing is if they have no idea where it was when they took it apart. But if someone does try this known bad way to do this work and mess up we can get them back correct if they can understand directions. I recall a few members here that could not do as instructed and would beat around the bush trying not to answer our questions as to what they had done. This is to anyone asking for help here. Not one person is going to say your silly or stupid for doing that and just go away. We understand what you are going thru and want to help. I have been on other sites where I saw how bad some members treated others. So I left. I'm here to help others just like I was helped some time ago. I was not born knowing what I know today. I learned from others and took some hard knocks doing things myself. This is a family friendly site. Name calling is not done here.

 

[Agnem]

Good question, and conventional wisdom is why the answer is always the same. Not pulling the gear housing reduces the chances of the following items.

Gear Misalignment
Introducing an oil leak

Not pulling the housing saves you labor on

4 bolts
Gasket/sealant scraping, cleaning and chemical prep of surfaces.

Pulling the housing ADDS LABOR, TIME TO REPAIR, and INTRODUCES UNKNOWNS.

Consider the fact that most people are replacing the IP because theirs is having a problem. They are putting on a new IP that they HOPE has no issues, but cannot be SURE of, until it is actually running. IF there is a problem, then whoever sold the IP has to deal with the "oh and I pulled the gear cover" conversation. If the issue seems to be one of timing, then both parties get screwed in the process, because somebody either has to pony up another pump, or that guy has to find another truck to put the pump on.

As you can see, pulling the gear cover works great in a classroom, but not in the real world for the reasons just mentioned. That said however, there ARE valid reasons to pull the gear cover, the most popular of which is to fix an oil leak. The way I do it, is to take the fuel screw adjustment plate off the IP, stick a 5/32" allen wrench in the fuel adjustment screw, and then make sure the allen is 90 degrees to everything else. Keep the hex tool in the pump as you remove the assembly. The tool will keep the pump and gear from turning at all. Of course, the engine must remain motionless as well. I've done this successfully and it worked well for me on a customer's vehicle, when we needed to swap gear housings so we could add a tach sensor.

 

[helidiesel]

^^^^^ is this in reference to my post? You are correct I misspoke when I said dot. I meant "Y". Thank you for clearing that up. As your picture shows the "Y" is on the injection pump gear.

Ricky

 

[icanfixall]

Mel I recall this post about using an allen wrench in the fuel turn up adjusting location. As for the white marks found on a gear.. In a classroom. This is probably true but in the real world.. Nope. I have had many engines opened and never have I seen this white mark. I have bought 4 brand new cams with the new gears on them. they are in the factory box too and none of them have the white paint marks. The great suggestin Russ made about grinding a bevel to the teeeth on both sides of the "Y" mark is a very good suggestion. It stil wont tell you that you have the injection pump gear timed properly. Seeing down in there the "Y" marks is the only real way of fixing this. Now if you know the engine is at top dead center on number one cylinder what you can do it draw a line from the "Y" mark up thru the top of the gear. See what this injection pump gear looks like in my pics. Now set the gear into the engine and use a square to make sure the line is straight up and down when its in the cam gear. Test this by moving the gear one tooth either way of correct. you will see the line is not straight up and down. Another method is to draw a line across the gear by counting up from the "Y" on each side 17 teeth. then set the gear into the cam gear. The line now will be level with the top of the thin metal gear cover. Finding top dead center number one cylinder is the tuff part. Remember the crank rutns 2 times to each single turn of the cam or injection pump gear. Looking at the timing tab at the dampner seeing the line matched up to the short fat timing tube can only tell you the timing is tdc at number 1 or number 4 cylinder. Only removing a glow plug or injector and watching the pressure blow out the head will tell you if your at the right cylinder when the tab shows the zero mark at the crank. Be careful with the pressure blowing out of the open cylinder. Theres enough pressure to send crap into your eyes or face. Do not put your finger over the hole like some do with a gas engine. It will hurt you. Mell has really explained why we don't recommend removing the pump with the gear and housing unless it has to be done. Now if I saw a new pump in a wrecking yard well then hell yes I'm removing it that way. but in my shop or yours.. nope.. don't need all the trouble.

 

[helidiesel]

Correct me if I'm wrong but does the manual not ref the paint marks on the gear?

 

[icanfixall]

I can't comment on that. What I can comment on is in all the new and used cam gears I have seen. Never have I seen the white marks. Is it possible I missed them.. Not likely but a possibility too just that same. I just do not recall ever seeing this mark. What chronical did you get this information from. A factory manual or some other manual on these engines. That might help me understand where this white mark information is coming from.

 

[gandalf]

... Another method is to draw a line across the gear by counting up from the "Y" on each side 17 teeth. then set the gear into the cam gear. The line now will be level with the top of the thin metal gear cover. ...

This drawing illustrates what Gary has explained.

You must be registered for see images attach

With all this being said, I think our preferred method has been adequately explained, both the procedure and the reasoning and logic behind it. It's become rather like beating a dead horse.

You can do this job any way you want. If you prefer to remove the gear housing and the gear, go right ahead. It can be done that way, with a great amount of care. People here have done it.

We won't feel hurt if you want to give that a try. Come on back if you have trouble aligning the gears or timing the engine with misaligned gears. We'll still be here.

 

[junk]

I'm wondering if the white marks are an International thing?

 

[icanfixall]

From what I have found out over the years of buying parts from Ford many times they are International parts in Ford labeled bos. This forum is here to help anyone that asks. Its not customary to point fingers and call out someone that did something differently than others. Help is what you get here no matter what you have done. For me the saddest part of being part of this forum is reading a post about buying an ebay injection pump thats been overhauled by painting it. We don't need to out those ebay sellers because they are well listed in the Hall of Shame forum. I just feel bad for a person coming here having to buy another pump or a set of injectors cause some thief on ebay ripped them off. now they are out nearly twice the money to get the good stuff from our known suppliers.

 

[helidiesel]

This drawing illustrates what Gary has explained.

You must be registered for see images attach

With all this being said, I think our preferred method has been adequately explained, both the procedure and the reasoning and logic behind it. It's become rather like beating a dead horse.

You can do this job any way you want. If you prefer to remove the gear housing and the gear, go right ahead. It can be done that way, with a great amount of care. People here have done it.

We won't feel hurt if you want to give that a try. Come on back if you have trouble aligning the gears or timing the engine with misaligned gears. We'll still be here.

Thanks for your help and the offer for future help!!

You must be registered for see images attach

There is some proof of the lines I'm ref. I don't have access to the manual right now.

 

[helidiesel]

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj556/helijeep/B43BBA65-68C5-45AA-9CF8-A6B77015AD72-1604-000000EBE05FC18E_zpsfd9fe617.jpg

This show up?

 

[helidiesel]

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[helidiesel]

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[icanfixall]

Sorry but thats not proof of anything. I know the person that posted that discription. I also told him about 6 years ago it was wrong. I pointed out its a very good picture of the timing marks but... The crnak gear has only one matk. Now that you see that how would you know which crank gear mark to use. Everyone knows the oil pump does not need to be timed to the crank gear. It was just an over site on the person that made this up for everyone. Now he "may have" made the white paint marks on his own but they were not a factory thing. I believe the factory did use some white paint at the bottom of the tooth where the "Y" mark is but even thats suspect in my memory now. What I will do is take a pic of my new cams with the new gear on them and see if I can post it here for everyone. Last time I tried to post a new pic I could not gigure out how to transfer from my computer where all my pics go originally.

 

[helidiesel]

as you could see i had trouble as well!!!!! lol and thank you