I'm starting to think the mechanic botched it up again.

[Ocelotl]

I will definitely try that 1st thing in the morning.

 

[gandalf]

You say you've owned the truck for 2 years. Somebody swapped engines before you bought it? So, somebody has been playing home mechanic at some point in the past. How has the engine run, once you have gotten it started? Does it struggle a bit? Seem low on power? Make a lot of noise?

I'm wondering at this point whether anybody ever removed the gear tower when they were messing with the injection pump. If that gear tower is removed, then the timing could have slipped a tooth in either direction when it went back on. IF that has happened, then the timing is off more than can be adjusted for correction. The real trick here is to figure out whether that is what has happened. DO NOT remove that gear tower to experiment trying to correct it.

Exhaust the air leak possibility first. When you're satisfied that there is no air leak, then somebody here will go over the slipped tooth possibility with you. And remember, this is only a possibility, something which may eventually have to be checked.

 

[Ocelotl]

You say you've owned the truck for 2 years. Somebody swapped engines before you bought it? So, somebody has been playing home mechanic at some point in the past. How has the engine run, once you have gotten it started? Does it struggle a bit? Seem low on power? Make a lot of noise?

I'm wondering at this point whether anybody ever removed the gear tower when they were messing with the injection pump. If that gear tower is removed, then the timing could have slipped a tooth in either direction when it went back on. IF that has happened, then the timing is off more than can be adjusted for correction. The real trick here is to figure out whether that is what has happened. DO NOT remove that gear tower to experiment trying to correct it.

Exhaust the air leak possibility first. When you're satisfied that there is no air leak, then somebody here will go over the slipped tooth possibility with you. And remember, this is only a possibility, something which may eventually have to be checked.

Yeah, about two years. The VIN says it's a C code turbo truck, but the engine is very much an M code NA. Unless they removed the turbo and then went through the trouble of swapping in NA valve covers and relocating the CDR.

It has never had any guts, to the point where it slows down on long interstate overpass climbs and such. Towing an empty 6X10 enclosed trailer has it slowing down to 45-55 on those same long slopes. On level roads it zips all the way to 80 if I want it to, though. It has always smoked more than it should while running, I just always thought it was because it's all worn out and, not needing the truck often it wasn't a priority.

I now want to fix it because, dang it, I know I was just lazy by taking it to a mechanic. I haven't taken anything to a mechanic in a good 10 years, but it seemed easier to fix an old Honda motorcycle the kind I know so well and trade it with him for the labor (I'm shaking my head at myself right now, lol). At any rate, I service and repair all my vehicles and it's about time I start with this one. It never made any untoward noises, however.

It's always been hard to start, but it always did start at the second try after cranking for under 10 seconds each. It actually got much worse after I took it to this mechanic for the second time, when he put in the IP and did the return lines (except for the crossover piece at the back of the engine as I realized today when I pulled out an old and greasy hose from there when I redid them myself today). Ever since the new pump was put in it's been 5+ times at 15 seconds of cranking each followed by huge amounts of smoke once it finally started. Great way to tick off the neighbors.

**One thing I forgot to mention** The reason I agreed to have the pump swapped is because it started to heat soak after sitting for 30 minutes after running. It would crank right up once I doused it with water. Well, the new pump has always done the same. So for all I know it's a bum pump.

I have no idea what the gear tower is how can I tell if it's still there?

 

[79jasper]

The IP gear tower is definitely still on your engine. It's what the IP bolts to. And should have the oil fill cap on it.
Basically they were saying there's two ways to change the IP, the right way, and the wrong way. The right way you just unbolt the IP from the gear tower. The wrong way is removing the gear tower with the IP.
If one does it said wrong way, it can be nearly impossible to get the timing right.

It does sound like you have another bad pump.
Another member here got six or so pumps from two or three different suppliers, all were bad.
If a pump has the heat soak problems, it's guaranteed to be nearing the end of it's life. So if it's done it since day one and you've put 2k miles on it, it's most likely dead.

 

[justinray]

If you don't have it at least started by next weekend, let me know, I'll make a roadtrip to see if I can't hp
help.

 

[Ocelotl]

The right way you just unbolt the IP from the gear tower. The wrong way is removing the gear tower with the IP.
If one does it said wrong way, it can be nearly impossible to get the timing right.

I see, about the pump tower. I'll get it out of him tomorrow about how he went about installing it and about whatever warranty it may have if it is indeed new. Regardless, it is looking like it's the pump.

I'll still bleed it the way icanfixall suggested and go from there. I've been so focused on air intrusion, and fixated on how the pump is new, that I just didn't remember that important bit, about the heat soak.

 

[79jasper]

You may be able to tell by looking at the mating surface of the tower to the block. See if the RTV or whatever used looks fresh.

 

[Ocelotl]

If you don't have it at least started by next weekend, let me know, I'll make a roadtrip to see if I can't hp
help.

That's mighty kind of you but you've got to be at least 200 miles away.

Let's see what develops in the next few days as far . I'm fixing to be extremely busy with work starting Monday, so the whole thing might have to wait a couple of weeks. Perfect time to have the pump and injectors looked at if need be.

 

[mariner45]

Seeing that you have an NA (naturally asphixiated) engine, you will always have some smoke in the exhaust. At least that was my experience when my truck was new and on through until I had a turbo charger installed at around 80,000 kms. You will always be starved of air to some degree when you increase the fuel.
I can't comment on your fuel pump situation, though what you describe certainly sounds plausible.
How good is this mechanc ??? If you have the room and space to work on your truck, you would be way ahead doing your own repairs.
Around here shops want in excess of $100 an hour - even for "idjits" working on the truck. For that sort of money it would not take long to pay for a real brand new fuel pump and injectors.
Hope you manage to find and fix your problem soon.
Good luck

 

[icanfixall]

If you can post the block serial numbers we can tell you about what year the block is. The numbers are located on the drivers side next to the injection pump gear cover or tower. They will be very close to the cover edge and might even have some rtv covering them. Also its a grand idea to ask the guy that changed the pump if he pulled the cover, pump and gear. If he did I'll bet the gear timing is wrong. I'm also thinking the pump is worn out but I realize the compression is down on some cylinders too. If the gear timing is wrong I can walk you thru fixing it. The most important thing to do is make sure the engine is at top dead center number on cylinder. To do that you need to remove the glow plug and crank slowly watching for LOTS of air to shoot out of the plug hole. When you get close hand crank it till its tdc. Then we can tell you how to make sure the gears are correctly aligned. Heres a pic of what the gears and the timing marks looks like when the water pump and timing cover is off. You do not need to do this to gear time your engine. Its just showing the timing marks on the cam gear. Notice it has two differant marks. The "Y" matches the injection pump gear and the dot matches the crank gear. The crank gear is half the size of the cam gear and the injection pump gear is the same size as the cam gear.

 

[jhnlennon]

I think its time to give in and get out the can of ether. I dont think you have much to lose at this point. Just dont go fogging the entire engine with the stuff. Also, those compression numbers may improve after some run time.

 

[justinray]

That's mighty kind of you but you've got to be at least 200 miles away.

Let's see what develops in the next few days as far . I'm fixing to be extremely busy with work starting Monday, so the whole thing might have to wait a couple of weeks. Perfect time to have the pump and injectors looked at if need be.

Sounds close, but I have an extra IP and Iniectors to see if yours is just bad... And it wouldn't be a problem, just hast to wait til the weekend.

 

[Ocelotl]

Well, son of a seacook! It's alive! Got a late start this monrning and got all my tools lined up to try bleeding it the way icanfixall said. Still groggy and half-awake, I went to crank it for 20 seconds as suggested and... it started in like 2 seconds! It took me a few seconds more to truly realize what had just happened, lol. I guess having the auto charger on the batteries the whole night did it's thing. (Note to self: I'm not very good at judging cranking speed by ear, yesterday I could have sworn it was turning fast enough for it to start.)

Thanks for all the help, y'all!

After that I rigged up the Ferret setup and timed it all proper like to 8.5 as best as I could figure with a timing gun that doesn't do half-degrees.

Here's what the mark I made looks like now after I timed it:

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I then went on a ride for about 40 miles and it definitely runs much smoother and stronger. Going up those long overpasses only brought the speed down five miles, whereas before it was 10-15. The smoke out the tailpipe that I can see through the rear-view mirror is black instead of white, and only a little puff when I'm taking off on 1st, and a nice stream when goosing it past 3K while accelerating. Headwinds don't affect it nearly at all, and going up the steeper slopes around the neighborhood it accelerates up them in second whereas before I had to negotiate them on 1st alone and revved to the max.

Still, I just went outside exactly 30 minutes after I got back from the test drive and it just wouldn't start after cranking for about 15 seconds. Took my water jug out and drenched the pump and it started right away. So the pump is still questionable, the compression is still what it is, but I'm happy with the results so far. Thanks again for all the help!!

 

[Ocelotl]

Sounds close, but I have an extra IP and Iniectors to see if yours is just bad... And it wouldn't be a problem, just hast to wait til the weekend.

Thanks again for the offer. I don't know many people who would do that for a stranger, so please know I really appreciate the gesture. Do give me a shout if you're ever around Central TX. I travel a bunch for work but if you catch me in town I'll take you to the best BBQ around these parts. That goes for all of y'all, all this help is worth at least a plate of brisket and a cold one.

 

[justinray]

Thanks again for the offer. I don't know many people who would do that for a stranger, so please know I really appreciate the gesture. Do give me a shout if you're ever around Central TX. I travel a bunch for work but if you catch me in town I'll take you to the best BBQ around these parts. That goes for all of y'all, all this help is worth at least a plate of brisket and a cold one.

Thanks bud, it's no big deal really, I just know how frustrating it is to noy have any members close by likethese guys on the East and West Coasts.