Huge 6.9 Problems

[towcat]

scotty-
here's a couple of extreme examples. '87 F350 towed in. 12'flatbed on the back. concrete company truck. Driver/idiot was driving back from monterey, ca. right around Fort Ord, overheats, temp needle pegs. But its friday, payday...and the check is at the shop. He wants his check and doesn't care what it will cost the company to fix the truck. Its not his. He made it as far as Gilroy. About 30 mins driving. There's a few small hills involved. Upon teardown, the oil in the pan is coked. heads have cracks large enough to fit the thickness of a quarter in it. believe it or not, block is still good. Driver gets his check on monday and a layoff notice.
here's another.....Truck pops a oil cooler gasket and is filling the cooling system with oil. Also, there's a valve hanging up. Every so often, the piston "pushes" the valve closed. Idiot driver takes a gamble and drives from TX to CA with a sick motor. it makes the trip. 6gal of water every 400miles. 3gal of oil for the trip. heads are junk. block is still good. pistons are junk.
Its hard to make a clear decision when you are so mad you can't see straight, and it doesn't help that the spousal unit wants the truck gone too. Just keep in mind, you aren't going to get much $$$ out of a truck with a bad motor.

 

[The Warden]

It sounds a LOT to me like the shop didn't "burp" the system before giving the truck back to you...but, I doubt that that could be proven. If the block/a head is cracked, chances are that that's the root cause, if I'm right (and I hope that I'm not).



IMHO it's still worth a second opinion before writing the truck off, but...oh man...

As Calvin said, one way or another, it'd be best to sleep on it before making a firm decision...

 

[beretzs]

I am with both you guys. If it is a head cracked, that is on them. They took care of the heads, it was part of the overall deal, the block, well not soo much. I know it never got any hotter than 240*, it was at 240 then came down. It has been using a ton of water, just like you mentioned Towcat. I am just not sure where to go. I know it won't be worth much without a running motor, but heck, I have three vehicles to go to NC and not enough time/money or drivers to get them all there. I was thinking, if I absolutely had to, I could get a u-haul, penske, name your flavor, and put the old Jeep in the back, the new JEep on the trailer on the back and head out. Old Jeep would easily fit in the back of a bigger u-haul truck and it may be slow and cost some gas, but I would get there and the truck could be someone elses headache, maybe I am getting ahead of myself, but IFFFFFFFFF it is just the oil cooler and they can fix it, then I am still in good shape and still have my truck. I wouldn't be so apt to ship it off, but I have the truck, the new Jeep, a VW Passat and my old Jeep, so something has to give. Oh and the trailer. Scotty

 

[beretzs]

I can't really afford a second opinion, as much as I would like to get one, I am eating SH*T on this. Scotty

 

[geonc]

Tim, I had to go back and re-read....thought he had white vapors from the c/c....my apologys.

As far as the impact, I HAVE seen many guys do a quick zip-down with the gun, then torque...still WRONG

Cooling systems are pretty tough as well as the iron....it is actually the "lack" of coolant that takes out heads....having personally experienced temps above 275 deg provided coolant is flowing w/ high press system and not allowed to turn to steam and cause errosion/pitting from the steam [ that is acually COOLER than the surrounding heated iron]....many iron engines come away un-harmed.

Tim, you are dead on regarding the air pocket from an un-bled cooling system ....a topic that I have preached many times, only to be told that is what the "ball" in the t/stat hsg is for...at least on the 7.3---are the 6.9's the same?

If the heads got hot enough to crack--prolly between the valves-- the block is prolly OK.....

Even if Scotty's rad was plugged, there still shoud have been enough coolant flowing to maintain reasonable temps with little if any boil over.......needing to add 2 gals coolant.

I'm still hedging a tech miscue

Scotty, have they done a compression conatmination test of the cooling syst?
Are they pressure testing the cooling syst with the oil drained and plug out to see if coolant is draining down the cyl?
Was there any signs of milky oil or moisture on the dipstick?

 

[beretzs]

They are draingin the oil right now, as I type. They are going to pressurize the system tomorrow morning and let me know the verdict. If water/coolant comes out the drain plug (when pressurized), I have problems. When I checked the oil recently there were little bubbles on the dipstick, that looked to me like coolant. Not 100% positive, but 95% sure. Just not looking good huh. I would probably guess that there were air pockets in the system. Hard tellin, hopefully by tomorrow, I will have a better grasp at this stuff. Scotty

 

[typ4]

hey scotty, be firm with them, they should have made you get the radiator rodded or repaired when they did the gaskets, chances are good that it caused the head gasket problem. I almost had to buy an engine once in a camaro because the guy didnt want to do the rad when I overhauled the engine. He drove from portland to reno and cooked it, all info was on the invoice, lucky me, but I digress the 6.9 block is VERY tough 240 is not that hot, I would guess they didnt do the head job correctly since they didnt catch the plugged radiator. If I had my truck done I would road trip you stuff to lejuene for you, any excuse for a road trip lol
keep us posted

 

[The Warden]

Tim, I had to go back and re-read....thought he had white vapors from the c/c....my apologys.

No worries...as you probably saw, I was starting to doubt myself there...had to ask and confirm that the smoke was in fact coming out of the exhaust pipe. One of those times where you're pretty sure you're right, but you're wishing that you're wrong...

As far as the impact, I HAVE seen many guys do a quick zip-down with the gun, then torque...still WRONG

Too many idiots, not enough villages... If I caught someone doing something like that on my truck, I would NOT be a happy camper...

that is what the "ball" in the t/stat hsg is for...at least on the 7.3---are the 6.9's the same?

In theory, that is what the thermostat housing "ball" is for...and yes, the 6.9l has it as well. I can think of two scenarios that would put that ball there:

• The ball is there to allow the system to bleed itself of air. I think that there are people who operate under that assumption (i.e. the people you've argued with, and maybe the 1D10T's that did Scotty's heads) and fill the system until the radiator's full and call it good, assuming that that ball's letting trapped air out of the crankcase. I agree with you...either that is NOT the ball's purpose (see below), or the ball doesn't do its job AT ALL, because it sure as Hades doesn't act like that in reality (at least it didn't on my truck).
• The ball is there to allow the system to be bled of air, but it is NOT an automatic function. When I filled the cooling system on my IDI, I got coolant to just under the top of the radiator. I then squeezed the top radiator hose and watched the level in the radiator as it went down and down until it wouldn't go any further. I then repeated this process until the water level was right at the fillneck and wouldn't go down any further. After this, I started the truck and drove it around until the thermostat opened up...and immediately thereafter checked the coolant level, and found that it was fine. This was with the ball rattling around freely, BTW. I assume that coolant was getting in, and water was getting out, through that ball...and the ball's only there to keep coolant from circulating while the thermostat's closed.

One way or another, IMHO Scotty has every right to be mad at the shop...

 

[The Warden]

They are going to pressurize the system tomorrow morning and let me know the verdict. If water/coolant comes out the drain plug (when pressurized), I have problems.

Here's to hoping!! It would be REALLY nice if it turns out to be something simple...

Any chance that you might be able to be present when they conduct the test? This way, you can see for yourself and not need to rely on them...but I'm guessing that you'll either need to be at work, or they won't let you in...but, can't hurt to ask

If I had my truck done I would road trip you stuff to lejuene for you, any excuse for a road trip lol

I hear that If it weren't for $$ issues and the fact that school's starting back up in less than 24 hours, it would be fun

 

[beretzs]

Thanks guys, but mad is not going to fix this. I have been taken it feels like. I have given them a nough of a chance to make good on this, and now this crap. We shall see. I am going to go to the shop and see what exactly is happening with my own peepers. Scotty

 

[geonc]

I find it odd that they have drained to coolant before doing a combustion contamination test while the eng is at least warm .......................

many cracks don't "appear" till thigs get warm...especially if a head bolt hole is fractured.........


And I agree with on why a complete head job and no mention of rodding/core the radiator

Did they re-surface your existing heads or replace 1 or both with exchange heads?

Any chance 7.3 head gaskets were used...IS there any diff between 6.9/7.3 head gaskts

 

[Agnem]

Scotty, I'm real sorry to hear about all this. I just sit here shaking my head, thinking about all the bad headgasket jobs that I have read about on these boards over the years. So many good people have abandoned truck, because somebody else took a simple problem and made it far worse, burying the truck alive, in cost overruns and grief. If you have coolant blowing out on the way home, then that means they never even drove the truck to get to operating temp after they did the work. When I do my gaskets, I'm paranoid for 6 months, not 6 hours or 6 minutes, which is about all these guys must have spent on follow up testing. Even if your cooling system was messed up, they should have caught it on the test drive. If the heads cracked because of overheating, they should have prevented it. If the heads cracked because of their mishandling or torqueing, they should have prevented it. I just wish there was a way out of this that would restore your wife's faith, and the trucks roadworthyness.

 

[The Warden]

When I do my gaskets, I'm paranoid for 6 months, not 6 hours or 6 minutes

Only 6 months?

It's been almost a year and a half since I did mine, and I'm still paranoid about every little noise my truck makes, every minor change in EGT readings (at least before the gauge died), etc...

 

[Mojave Red]

Scotty

This sucks! Let me know if you need me to come down during the weekend and help turn a wrench. Hopefully it won't be as bad as it looks - it could be the oil cooler as stated above. The only cracks in a 6.9 I'm familiar with are those that form around the block heater. And then it only leaks to the outside. I'll call you in a day or two after your wife cools down.

When are you pulling out for your PCS?

Brian

 

[beretzs]

I haven't lost total faith, just ALOT of money in the process. It stinks when you don't have the time to do this stuff yourself. I did my old mans HG's the very last time in 93. All by my lonesome, well, had some friends to help. But the mechanical part was on me.

GEONC, the heads were resurfaced when they did them, and they did say they fealt BAD about not noticing the radiator when they had it there the first time. I had the money, I wish they would have just did it then. Saved me some headache. I think they used the correct gasket, cause on the receipt it does says IH 6.9 gasket or something close to that effect.

Some positive news, SUPERF350 a fellow Marine and Ford guy, lives near me, he has a project 6.9 he has been tinkering with. Has the block and stuff seperated right now, just had the heads redone. Said we could do a swap, I have a brand new set of tires and he has a good engine block/heads. Said he would even help me do the swap. IF the block is cracked, I will take him up on that offer and pull my engine, swap everything over to the new engine and install the new engine in my truck with turbo. No idea on how many miles are on his engine, but for free, I am sure it would be fine. So took my day from a really bad day, to moderately decent. Then I will have a fresh engine with new gaskets and stuff, and turbo, and related parts. Plus I can put those ARP headstuds in the new block and KNOW that is was done right. Scotty