Huge 6.9 Problems

[beretzs]

Alright guys, listen to my tale of WO.. I took my truck back up to shop that did the headgaskets about 6 months. Well, since fuel went through the roof this winter, I never really drove the truck, just around the block once in a while. Nothing major. Well, after I got the FSV fixed (thanks Towcat) I drove it around on a Sunday and kept checking the coolant, BECAUSE, I remebered as soon as I got the truck back from the people who fixed it, it was overfilling the overflow bottle by the time I got back to my house. Well, about everytime I checked after about 10 miles of driving, it would take about a gallon of water. Well, I did this three or four times. Well, the next day, I was going up to my Uncles to work a little on my day off (from the Marines) and I saw that I was blowing a ton of WHITE SMOKE. Well, since my Uncles Shop is near the place that fixed my headgaskets, I called and asked if I could drop it off. They said sure, bring it by. So I dropped it off, and got a ride from a worker to go to work.

Well, they call me later the next day and when they try to pressure test the system, they say the radiator is totally plugged (knew that, and was planning a replacement) and the water pump was leaking. Well, since those were leaking, I told them to fix them, put a new WP, Fan Clutch, Radiator and T-stat in it. I figured it was just the headgaskets and they would either have to retourque them, or replace THEIR initial work (the labor and parts were under warranty)..

Well, I call them today and they said there was coolant in the oil. They said, probably the oil cooler or a CRACKED FRIGGIN BLOCK.. So now is where I get very worried, I am not sure where or what to do. I am getting ready to PCS to Camp Lejeune North Carolina and I am going to need a truck to drag my trailer and Jeep there. If the truck needs a new engine. Well, I am going to see if there is an organization such as the Navy and Marine Corps Relief that will help me out. I had enough put away to do the radiator, water pump, t-stat and fan clutch, but not a whole new engine.

They are supposed to be testing the system again today. I think they are going to drain the oil, pressurize the system and see if any water gets into the oil pan. Man, I am up SH&T creek without a paddle, boat or my mind. The worst part is the wife is so upset because I just spent so much money on the truck and she wants it GONE. Another option would be to part it out, it does have new Banks Turbo, with less than 30K on it. A Gearvendors , good front and rear axles, a good tranny.. Anyhow, that is my problem and hopefully in a few days I can figure out what to do with my crap. Scotty

 

[towcat]

scotty-
unless you have majorly overheated it, a cracked block is highly unlikely. oil cooler seals is the likely culprit. In all the years I have worked on fleets, I have only seen one cracked 6.9 block. The block heater hole doesn't count at least not in the SF bay area.
On the flip side, it also sounds like these guys are soaking you pretty hard too.

 

[The Warden]

I don't think an oil cooler leak would lead to white smoke... Dumb question, but did you smell the smoke to determine whether it's steam or a fuel issue? How much coolant was in the crankcase?

I have a bad feeling about this...

If it's a cracked head, any chance that it could be due to an error on their part when they did the head gaskets? Also, it might be worth it to get a second opinion.

One option, if it comes down to it, is to find a junkyard IDI longblock in decent shape and toss it into your truck just to get you to NC.

Sorry to hear this...

 

[Exekiel69]

First I do not know if you can recomend this guys, now I think when a shop starts to find out everything but the job they did on your truck is wrong they are giving you the round around, pulling your leg, you get point.

 

[towcat]

First I do not know if you can recomend this guys, now I think when a shop starts to find out everything but the job they did on your truck is wrong they are giving you the round around, pulling your leg, you get point.

I was just about to go there.
scotty- you got my number. gimme a call.

 

[geonc]

Well......a cracked block CAN happen if the doing the heads did not evacuate the coolant/fuel/oil etc... from the head bolt holes prior to running them down with an impact

As we know liquid does not compress and using an impact to "snug" the head blots will split one ! Using a rachet and slowly drawing the bolts in allows the liquid to move up the treads....NOT reccomended either but that is the safe way if someone is to damn lazy to evac the holes before running the head bolts home.

Seen more than my share at Detroit Diesel

I'm with Cal on the oil cooler seals and the "soaking" part :draw

Scotty,
You will prolly run right pass Neckville....lemme know if I can be of any help

 

[The Warden]

Well......a cracked block CAN happen if the doing the heads did not evacuate the coolant/fuel/oil etc... from the head bolt holes prior to running them down with an impact

Which, of course, begs the next question...who in their right mind would use an impact gun to tighten down head bolts on an IDI? Last I checked the manual, Ford and IH wanted you to be almost delicate with how the head bolts were removed, not to mention installing them. Maybe things have changed since my auto shop teacher was trained, but I was taught that even "torque-set" impact guns aren't accurate enough for something like this...

I'm with Cal on the oil cooler seals and the "soaking" part :draw

I think the "soaking" part is dead-on but how can bad oil cooler seals lead to an engine burning coolant? Am I missing something? Or, do you guys think that the white smoke may be a separate issue? Certainly, oil cooler seals can lead to coolant in the engine oil, but I still don't see how the coolant can be getting into the combustion chambers...

 

[beretzs]

Okay, I am with you guys on this. The soaking part that is. I took the truck back to them, since they did the job, and I did not have the time/nor money to pay someone else to do this. It was their work, I hoped they would back it. The truck did get hot a few times, right around 240* not sure if that is enough to crack a block or what. I still have to give them a call tonight and see what is up. They should have had a chance to check it out. No matter how you cut it, it is a huge disaster. I cannot afford a new engine and I am already into them for the radiator, WP, T-stat- and fan clutch. From the get go, when I thought it was the Headgaskets, I should have just bought a drop in and been done with it, now I have a enough money tied up in it and the truck is worthless. I would sell it cheap to be done with it. Whatever someone would think the truck is worth, it would be gone, rust free california truck with trubo, GV, lift, tires, newer paint, XLT Lariat with Cruise and AC. Gotta be worth something for parts, plus the IP and Injectors are all new, would be a pretty easy truck if you had a cheap engine laying around. I hate to do it, but I am too tied up to think about keeping it. I cannot afford to have it hanging around and an unreliable truck is not something I am going to take my chances with halfway across the states. Know what I mean. Gotta figure something out. Scotty

 

[beretzs]

Warden, you are right on with how does coolant get into the combustion chamber if it is NOT the headgaskets, it has to be a crack in the cylinder bore. I hate dealing with this. It is killing me. It was a good truck for a long time, but when stuff starts to go, it goes all at once. Scotty

 

[The Warden]

The truck did get hot a few times, right around 240* not sure if that is enough to crack a block or what.

Dumb question, but how certain are you that the cooling system was full when the temp got up to 240 degrees? I.E. could there still have been a bubble of air going through the cooling system? What was the truck doing when it got that hot, and how long did the engine stay that hot for?

how does coolant get into the combustion chamber if it is NOT the headgaskets, it has to be a crack in the cylinder bore.

Depending on what the answer to the above question is, that goes back to the shop botching the job...which means, if you can get them to admit that it was their problem (more likely if you have proof from another shop that this was the result of their job), there SHOULD be some recourse for all of this. I don't have enough experience with these dealings to say what you should be able to demand of them, but at a minimum, they should re-do their work...

 

[beretzs]

What happened was I was climbing the 73 North, pretty good grade and cruising along, the temp started coming, like it always has, but instead of the clutch fan engaging at 210 or so, it kept right on going and with my arm out the window I fealt a little mist on my arm, it was coolant, it was all over the side of the truck. I backed off and got over the top of the hill and it cooled off pretty quickly, but it might have been the straw that broke it. Plus, when I took it up to the shop this last time, I was cruising on the freeway and made a wrong turn, so I had to turn around at the next exit, well, when I slowed down at the bottom of the ramp, I could see the needle starting to move up and the truck was billowing white smoke, as soon as I started going again, it cooled right down, but that again, probably could have been enough for it. Just not sure where it would have cracked. Both times, it needed a gallon or more of coolant to fill the radiator back up. Bad times in the Beretz Household right now. Scotty

 

[beretzs]

Yup, like I said, when I first got the truck back from the shop, 6 months ago, it spewed coolant all over by the time I got to the house, radiator was probably plugged then. Didn't drive the truck enough to make it warm, and didn't need the truck, so I left it sitting. I was told the plugged radiator could have popped the gaskets. Not sure right now. So p(*)ed I wanna use deadly force. Scotty

 

[The Warden]

Was the white smoke you saw coming out of the exhaust pipe or the engine compartment? One way or another, it sounds like you were leaking coolant at some point...was this from the water pump, or from where?

I don't believe coolant at 240 degrees is enough to crack a block or head by itself. BUT, I think that air in the coolant jacket with coolant that hot might do it, since part of the block that's supposed to be in contact with coolant wasn't, and that part of the block would therefore have gotten mighty hot.

OTOH, I would have thought that requiring "only" one gallon of coolant wouldn't have the coolant level low enough to get air into the block like that...unless you lost more than a gallon of coolant and had a significant air pocket in the cooling system even after adding the coolant.

One more thing...had they swapped the water pump prior to reporting to you that there was coolant in the crankcase? I'm wondering if they may not have sealed the bolts that go into the timing gear cover correctly? (although I can't remember if that could result in a coolant-in-oil problem or not; I'm at school so I can't look at my books)

{on edit} Okay, I had missed the part about coolant spewing out of the overflow when you first drove the truck back from the shop 6 months ago. Did you check the level in the radiator itself at that time?

 

[beretzs]

White smoke was coming from the exhaust pipe, and I cannot remember how low the coolant was back 6 months ago when it did this originally, but it was a couple gallons. At least. I am pretty sure they swapped the water pump, before they did all this today. If the engine is cracked so be it. I will sell it to someone who wants a GV, turbo or whatever other parts the truck has. I am not going to put a new engine. Can't, don't have the money. Can't justify it to the wife. I almost had to sell my sole to get the money for headgaskets 6 months ago.

Side not, just called them, says oil is think and still draining from the crankcase. Don't know, says they will call first thing in the morning. Scotty

 

[beretzs]

Yup, checked everything over, and by the time I got to my house, it was a few gallons short of fuel.. NO GOOD. You guys have dibs on the truck if it has a cracked block. If anyone has an engine laying around it would be a GREAT truck, and pretty cheap at that. Tired of fighting the truck everytime I turn around. Scotty