just checked with the connectors off, they are shot. bought them through dieselstore.com and just called them. the guy on the phone sounded like he didnt know anything. i bought these because they have a 1 year warrenty through dieselrx but this guy has to check with his warranty department and will be getting back to me. ive heard good and bad on these plugs, we will see so far they only glowed once for about 10 seconds then died (could be my fault with the push button).
glow plug relay help
- Thread starter 88beast
- Start date
rhkcommander
Full Access Member
honestly glow plug brands vary so much that 10 could be too much or just fine. I shoot for 7-8, works great for bosch and wellman (so far), beru seem to take a little longer to get as hot. bosch would be ready after 5. this is another reason I don't like the glowplug controller, can't adjust for different brands. Just gotta shell out for the beru pretty much
well new update, all new plugs and it still cycles really fast. all plugs checked good before install. now i hooked everything up as a push button and it gets to 9v or so in about 1.5 seconds. the plugs are not heating enough at that temp to get the truck started any ideas? im about to run out and get a air grid heater off an cummins, or three.
rhkcommander
Full Access Member
That voltage drop is normal, keep going. It wont start with two seconds of glow.
Get a watch, cellphone, whatever. Get a second-count and hold the button for 7 seconds. Then try to start it. Rough? Air intrusion, poor timing, bad compression, and a few other possibiltes.
Revving slow? Bad alternator and now batteries might be tired. Starters hate low voltage they like to burn out so it could be tired too.
As for the rapid fire controller, could be corrosion, wire damage, bad grounding... The stock harness is usually crapped out especially at the giant connector
Get a watch, cellphone, whatever. Get a second-count and hold the button for 7 seconds. Then try to start it. Rough? Air intrusion, poor timing, bad compression, and a few other possibiltes.
Revving slow? Bad alternator and now batteries might be tired. Starters hate low voltage they like to burn out so it could be tired too.
As for the rapid fire controller, could be corrosion, wire damage, bad grounding... The stock harness is usually crapped out especially at the giant connector
just installed a painless harness and a new glow harness so thats not the issue.
i did one 10 sec burn with the old set and they burnt out, but i think i may try a few 5 sec burns.
also cont is all new too. all wiring has been checked for good connections etc.
and that is not voltage drop from the batts, it is now fast the glow plugs hit 10v
i did one 10 sec burn with the old set and they burnt out, but i think i may try a few 5 sec burns.
also cont is all new too. all wiring has been checked for good connections etc.
and that is not voltage drop from the batts, it is now fast the glow plugs hit 10v
I didn't know we had so many Glow Plug experts, glad I read all posts.
Now Tom. Things ain't looking up to good, per your posts, correct me if I'm wrong.
You are using ZD1 glow plugs. Problem: ZD1 GP's are Six (6) volt glow plugs.
Should be using ZD9 12 VDC GP's
You put in a home made GP harness. Problem: You didn't use 14 Awg fusible link wire.
Fusible link wire has a higher resistance than straight copper wire per foot.
An automatic controller will cycle for a couple of seconds, starting at any temp 70*F and below, the length of cycle depends on the ambient temp.
The starting current draw is 195 amps and quickly reduces to 135 amps within 3 seconds, the voltage starts at 12.5 VDC for about 1 - 2 seconds, then reduces to 8.5 VDC for the duration of the cycle, whatever that is, when the WTS light goes out, that is the end of the full glow automatic cycle.
After the duration of the cycle, the controller will turn the relay ON/OFF up to 2 minutes, depending on the ambient temp, this type of cycling will NOT burn out the GP's. When the engine is started, the ON/OFF cycle usually stops.
To use manual cycling, count like this. One thousand and one--One thousand and two--and so on, for as long as you want to cycle in seconds.
Now Tom. Things ain't looking up to good, per your posts, correct me if I'm wrong.
You are using ZD1 glow plugs. Problem: ZD1 GP's are Six (6) volt glow plugs.
Should be using ZD9 12 VDC GP's
You put in a home made GP harness. Problem: You didn't use 14 Awg fusible link wire.
Fusible link wire has a higher resistance than straight copper wire per foot.
Your controller is cycling as it should.
An automatic controller will cycle for a couple of seconds, starting at any temp 70*F and below, the length of cycle depends on the ambient temp.
The starting current draw is 195 amps and quickly reduces to 135 amps within 3 seconds, the voltage starts at 12.5 VDC for about 1 - 2 seconds, then reduces to 8.5 VDC for the duration of the cycle, whatever that is, when the WTS light goes out, that is the end of the full glow automatic cycle.
After the duration of the cycle, the controller will turn the relay ON/OFF up to 2 minutes, depending on the ambient temp, this type of cycling will NOT burn out the GP's. When the engine is started, the ON/OFF cycle usually stops.
To use manual cycling, count like this. One thousand and one--One thousand and two--and so on, for as long as you want to cycle in seconds.
i have the 6.9 diesel rx plugs not motorcraft. the motorcraft sucked when it was working, burnt out every 6 months.
for the fuse links, they would add resistance. so more resistance means more glow time, i did not think of that. also i have a 12g wire or a 14g iirc. i will see about adding 2 fuse links.
i was looking high and low to find a flame front or air grid heater i could mod to use today, long story short the glop plugs get one more try.
also ive been following the haynes diesel manual to the t (when i can work around having a helper) to see whats wrong.
I got everything hooked up as a manual system and it seems to function. i think im keeping it this way.
also the controler will cycle till the key is turned off, and i probed the wts light wire (not hooked up) and it is putting out .2v. this will not light the testlight i had to use the volt meter
either way more tomorrow or sunday.
for the fuse links, they would add resistance. so more resistance means more glow time, i did not think of that. also i have a 12g wire or a 14g iirc. i will see about adding 2 fuse links.
i was looking high and low to find a flame front or air grid heater i could mod to use today, long story short the glop plugs get one more try.
also ive been following the haynes diesel manual to the t (when i can work around having a helper) to see whats wrong.
I got everything hooked up as a manual system and it seems to function. i think im keeping it this way.
also the controler will cycle till the key is turned off, and i probed the wts light wire (not hooked up) and it is putting out .2v. this will not light the testlight i had to use the volt meter
either way more tomorrow or sunday.
ifrythings
Full Access Member
You could always take an extra plug and wire it in temp and watch how long it takes to get bright orange, you would have to reduce your final count a very small percent from the lack of the extra plug you added slowing down the heating cycle of the rest.
rhkcommander
Full Access Member
You know they are getting power, how can you tell? Did you take one out, ground the body out and leave the wire attached to the end and see if it gets hot? Unless you have no compression, I can guarantee they are not getting powered on properly.
If everything was working properly then it would have started on the first 7 second try. Did your painless harness replace anything under the hood, such as the two big power wires that feed the relay for the glow plugs? Often times the connector that separates this pair is melted, burnt, and corroded to hell and not transferring enough juice...
These glow plug systems are very simple really... like this:
- Batteries to the glow plug relay power-terminal (the power wire is usually wired to the starter relay power input instead of directly to the battery positive)
- glow plug relay has 4 posts generally: 2 big posts for power IN and OUT. IN always has power, out only has power when you tell it to, this is what makes the glow plugs get power to get hot. 2 small terminals are for grounding and for Signaling the relay to come on using a positive charge
- So with a big fat hot wire going to the relay power input terminal there are two ways to manually turn the relay on: control either the ground or the Signal terminal. The cleanest way to control it is by using the ground terminal as you only need to run one wire into the cab.
Option A:
Take a small bit of wire and crimp on a fat ring terminal connector on one end and a small one on the other, install the big end on the Power Input terminal with the big hot wire from the battery+ source, the other end goes on the Signal post. Without ground the relay remains off. Some relays are externally grounded through the relay body - if you hear a click on when it is mounted then there is a good chance it is. This means this method wont work. The stock ones are not, thus the need for a ground terminal. Run a wire with a small ring terminal from the ground terminal into the cab to a button. Run another wire from the button to anything/anywhere grounded - you can do this in the cab and not have another wire going out. This keeps the system simpler and now you don't have to have two potentially hot wires passing through the firewall.
Option B:
Run a grounded wire from under the cab to the ground terminal of the glow plug relay. Run a wire from the Signal terminal to a button in the cab, run another wire with a fuse and holder from a battery+ source to the button in the cab.
Bonus: either system you can hook up two debug LEDs easily: run a wire from the glowplug relay output terminal to inside the cab, hook it up to an LED+resistor or 12v lamp and then ground the other side and you can tell when the relay is on and glowplugs should be getting power
. If the light isn't on then it is either burnt out, wire is damaged, relay is shot, or your button is not working. The relay will still turn on even if all 8 glowplugs are dead. If the light stays on then you either have a bad button that is sticking, a relay sticking, or some similar issue. If you act quick you could potentially save the glowplugs from death caused by a stuck relay
.
- Lastly hook the glow plug harness up to the output ring terminal. It is a good idea to take the covers off of the harness to make sure it isn't falling apart anywhere, several of these old trucks I have worked on had wires broken off, one had 3/4 broken off all together on one side but you couldn't see it and the manual glow plug system acted like everything was fine.
Diagnostics
Easy way to test if this is a possible culprit, take a heavy duty wire like from a starter or at least a battery cable, hook it up to the glow plug-side of the relay, then to the positive of a battery. THERE WILL BE SPARKS. Use care. This is bypassing all of that other crap, everything except the glow plug harness and glow plugs themselves. Count to 7 again. If it starts, yay - everything after this point is fine, the problem is at this point or before.
Check those two wires I talked about, they are brown nearer to the batteries and yellow nearer to the relay, split by a big fat gray connector. Look OK? Replace the relay. Even if it is new, it could be defective. Another test you could do here is take something you don't mind getting chewed up like an old thick screwdriver and fitting it between the two big posts on the relay and then turning it into both of them so it doesn't bounce around and arcs the two contacts. THERE WILL BE SPARKS, use care. Count to 7, then remove the screwdriver or implement carefully. Don't get shocked. Whatever you use will get some arc-burns and damage so don't ruin a fancy snap-on tool ;p. If it starts up, the relay is the culprit - either corroded terminals/wiring or it itself is crap.
Be careful, not my fault if anything happens
and good luck. There really isn't that many places to check.ima try some of that tomorrow or when i can. i was thinking about testing it with the plug out, this is on the agenda, but the batteries have not had a full charge in a while with this trouble shooting. the whole system is new and all the wiring, i have 2 10g like stock from the starter solenoid hot to the gpc. then a 12 or 14g harness to the glow plugs.
as for getting power test light and volt meter confirm good power to the plugs.
i tested one with the battery charger and it took 14 seconds to a full glow and about 12 to get red. this is more than the 7 you mentioned and more than the 10 im used to. i think after testing the glow on the truck not on the charger i may just need to let them glow longer and the first set was just duds. also i will retest them.
as for compression, doubt it i had it running on either the other day, but to be sure im going to reblead all the injector lines hoping there is an air pocket.
i will get more once i get back on it.
as for getting power test light and volt meter confirm good power to the plugs.
i tested one with the battery charger and it took 14 seconds to a full glow and about 12 to get red. this is more than the 7 you mentioned and more than the 10 im used to. i think after testing the glow on the truck not on the charger i may just need to let them glow longer and the first set was just duds. also i will retest them.
as for compression, doubt it i had it running on either the other day, but to be sure im going to reblead all the injector lines hoping there is an air pocket.
i will get more once i get back on it.
also ive jumped solenoids im good there, i think im just missing something big, as i have used the ford plugs only.
as for the push button, right now im using a manual button (remote starter switch) under the hood and having someone turn the key. same as the last manual setup i had but with less wire.
the issue is im time pressed to get this working right now because i got to tow a mustang to a race in 2 weeks, so its the stress thats driving me nuts.
thanks for all the help though
as for the push button, right now im using a manual button (remote starter switch) under the hood and having someone turn the key. same as the last manual setup i had but with less wire.
the issue is im time pressed to get this working right now because i got to tow a mustang to a race in 2 weeks, so its the stress thats driving me nuts.
thanks for all the help though
rhkcommander
Full Access Member
Your welcome, what glowplugs you running? Sounds almost like you got 12 volt glowplugs, our trucks generally use 6v glowplugs for quicker starting as they get hot quicker. 12 volt take longer but are almost indestructible too in comparison lol. 6v plugs don't like much time
