F450 questions

[82fordtruck]

I have been buying and selling trucks for a while now and want one I can keep. The last two were bad. One had a bad title and the next had a cracked head (on a $400 truck). So I want to spend some more money and get something diesel or small gas engine.

Here's what I found locally:

A well used F250 (1995) with 5.8 for $2600
A very clean F350 (1994) Powerstroke with a no run condition for $3500
A very clean 1992 IDI F450 for 3800. It already has a flatbed on it, which is a bonus. It has 140000 miles. The powerstroke has 190000 and the 5.8 about the same.

We take the wife's car on trips, adn I have a 2006 GMC for hauling the boat around and stuff. I want to drive this ten miles each way to work and back and haul firewood, lumber, etc. A one ton is sized about right, a F450 I could use the payload at times but still a lot of empty miles.

It appears that I can get a 3.54 or 3.73 gear in the F450. I think the wheels are bigger too. Would this get my mileage and expenses to a reaonable level that I could justify getting the bigger truck? Remember that it's at least $1000 less because it already has the flatbed and it has less miels too.

What would you guys do? I'm not as sold on the F-450 as it may sound, so tell me what you really think.

 

[smokin69]

The F450 would be the best choice because the 'Stroker might be hugely expensive to fix. IDI's are also cheaper and easier to maintain and usualy get a little better millage.

 

[Diesel JD]

It really depends a lot WHY that PSD is dead. It may be some simple electric gremlin you can chase down or it may have you chasing it for weeks or months...or it might have a dead motor(not too probable, but possible). The main question with the 450 is going to be is your registration and insurance going to get out of control? I am thinking probably not since you are a business owner(IIRC?) and you can probably get it insured that way. Are you sure you can get the 3.73 or 3.54 gears for that D80? I thought 4.10 was as low as you could go...but they come with 5.13s or 4.88s. With the O/D transmission, if you can get it down to 4.10s its probably going to be very economical. It shouldn't eat you up on fuel at 20-25 miles a day even if fuel mileage sucks. Worst case scenario you get about 10-11mpg with the 5.13s and that yields 25/11 @$3.50/gallon around 8 bucks a day to drive it plus it has the capabilities for heavy hauling when you need it. The PSD may or may not do better than that in fuel economy if it was healthy... probably you could wring at least 15-16 out of it, but the 450 is much more capable if you can afford it. It does have the bigger wheels, and brakes and a 10 lug hub as opposed to 8. Good luck

 

[82fordtruck]

Insurance is a good thought. I don't own a business anymore. I now build and sell recycling equipment (hammermills) and work in the family business. I have 20m tags on my other truck and they aren't too expensive, but I don't know about personal property tax or insurance.

If I can't get about 14-15 MPG out of it I'll get the powerstroke or keep waiting until a F250 with the 300 shows up. But the F450 is a Dana 80, correct?

http://www.ringpinion.com/PartsList...Name=Rings+&+Pinions&CatType=Sub-Differential

This shows 3.31-5.38 readily available.

It really depends a lot WHY that PSD is dead. It may be some simple electric gremlin you can chase down or it may have you chasing it for weeks or months...or it might have a dead motor(not too probable, but possible). The main question with the 450 is going to be is your registration and insurance going to get out of control? I am thinking probably not since you are a business owner(IIRC?) and you can probably get it insured that way. Are you sure you can get the 3.73 or 3.54 gears for that D80? I thought 4.10 was as low as you could go...but they come with 5.13s or 4.88s. With the O/D transmission, if you can get it down to 4.10s its probably going to be very economical. It shouldn't eat you up on fuel at 20-25 miles a day even if fuel mileage sucks. Worst case scenario you get about 10-11mpg with the 5.13s and that yields 25/11 @$3.50/gallon around 8 bucks a day to drive it plus it has the capabilities for heavy hauling when you need it. The PSD may or may not do better than that in fuel economy if it was healthy... probably you could wring at least 15-16 out of it, but the 450 is much more capable if you can afford it. It does have the bigger wheels, and brakes and a 10 lug hub as opposed to 8. Good luck

 

[Diesel JD]

I'm almost 100% sure on the D80. If that be the case I'd be almost sure you could get the 14-15mpg or better with 3.73 or 4.10s. Gotta remember that truck is no F250, its HEAVY, I doubt I'd go lower than 4.10s maybe 3.73s. Maybe Towcat will talk to you, he knows F450s firsthand, I only know from observation here and a friend of mine had one. Look into the tags and insurance. If you can swing it...I think that will tell you if you need to look at a 450 or not. Can you change the gears yourself without too much trouble? If not...its going to get expensive.

 

[82fordtruck]

It must be too late for Towcat tonight. I need him or someone else to talk me out of this by Saturday.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

F-450 was not produced until 1999. What you are looking at is an F-Superduty. It's an important distinction because they are not the same. In particular tires, tire capacities and max GVWR's are different.

F-Superduty is geared way low, and are most suited for applications where there is heavy spring weight (dump truck, tow truck, utility beds etc). No way would I use one as a replacement for a pickup truck unless it was for occasional, local use only.

 

[Diesel JD]

Send him a PM I'm sure he's be glad to tell you all about them. I'd like to have an F-Superduty someday(maybe) but they definitely have their drawbacks and Roboto pointed out 1) Low gears 2) Higher cost of registration and insurance You might be able to defeat the low gear/screamer problem if you want to swap gears but you'd be stuck with the other stuff is it worth it? That's your call.

 

[towcat]

from 88-97 these trucks were known as F47/ F350superduty/ F450 in the parts catalogs. Irregardless, there is nothing gentle about these trucks. they do ride smooth when loaded down though.
There's at least four generations of Dana 80's some parts interchange but many don't. Gears are extremely tricky. Most often, the lowest you can go is 4.56. 5.13 is very common. Good part is you can climb up the side of a barn or even pull it down. Bad is the sucky fuel economy. 10-11 mpg is avg. putting in a USG or a GV does wonders.
In Kali, the reg on these mini-brutes is ungodly and so in the insurance. Mime are currently parked due to that fact. I am not running the towing side of my business so there is no financial justification for me to road them. Check with your insurance agent before making the jump.
If you do. It will be the last work truck you will ever need to buy
Oh yea, the wheels are the same size as a F350(16"). they have 10 lug nuts though. I've stolen a set off a GMC HD3500(19.5) and they do bolt up. I don't like paying a fortune for the tires though.

 

[82fordtruck]

from 88-97 these trucks were known as F47/ F350superduty/ F450 in the parts catalogs. Irregardless, there is nothing gentle about these trucks. they do ride smooth when loaded down though.
There's at least four generations of Dana 80's some parts interchange but many don't. Gears are extremely tricky. Most often, the lowest you can go is 4.56. 5.13 is very common. Good part is you can climb up the side of a barn or even pull it down. Bad is the sucky fuel economy. 10-11 mpg is avg. putting in a USG or a GV does wonders.
In Kali, the reg on these mini-brutes is ungodly and so in the insurance. Mime are currently parked due to that fact. I am not running the towing side of my business so there is no financial justification for me to road them. Check with your insurance agent before making the jump.
If you do. It will be the last work truck you will ever need to buy
Oh yea, the wheels are the same size as a F350(16"). they have 10 lug nuts though. I've stolen a set off a GMC HD3500(19.5) and they do bolt up. I don't like paying a fortune for the tires though.

Did you see that link to the Ring and Pinion site?

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Towcat - Do the 3500HD rims fit the wheel hubs properly? Or do they use cone lugnuts?

, some days I want to "not run the towing part" of my business too. Lots more bad days than good anymore.

 

[towcat]

Did you see that link to the Ring and Pinion site?

I have an account with Randy's. The info on there is oversimplified. On the older dana80's(pre'99) you better order by S/N on the axle housing or you will get yourself into a whole heap of trouble. The housings on the older 80's DO NOT work with the numerically lower ring and pinions. You will have to get a diffferent housing and have your brackets welded onto it. My '89 F450 carrier has had the mod done. It is dog slow off the line but will leave you in the dust when I dump the throttle at freeway speeds It took darn near a year of trial and error to get it built.

 

[towcat]

Towcat - Do the 3500HD rims fit the wheel hubs properly? Or do they use cone lugnuts?

, some days I want to "not run the towing part" of my business too. Lots more bad days than good anymore.

minor mods had to be done.
center hub hole was opened up and the stud holes were too. It was easier to do than redrilling a later model ford 19.5.
My biggest reason for not reopening the towing biz is because I'm currently working as a hired gun for another towing company. They pay me very well due to the fact I have a few credentials that are kind of hard to get. If I had my own operation going, it would be a major conflict of interest( at least in my own conscience). Also, it's pretty cool to break a truck, drop it off with their "mechanic" and get another

 

[82fordtruck]

I ended up not looking at the F450 and bought the powerstroke after fixing it. That was an easy one!

#22 Maxi fuse and filling the HPOP reservoir, it fired right up.

 

[Diesel JD]

I had a feeling that PSD might just be a simple electric problem. Much as I like the F-Superdutys they really are not practical for a DD. That's the tradeoff with the PSD, you get those little electrical gremlins that you miss out on in IDIs but a good bit more power. I hate electrical problems...I'm not very good at fixing them and they make me lose my temper But no doubt you ahve a cool truck now