Diagnosing no start...

[zacky6661]

So I drove my truck around to do something for my job, and I started getting the running out of fuel symptom of the motor surging like its got twice the power (neither tanks fuel guage works -_-), so I quickly switched tanks, and it eventually smoothed out. Got back to work and it sat for about another 2 hours, which is usually how long I have to let it sit before it will start again (IP heat soak im leaning towards from research, havent had the money to swap fuel filters or return lines...).

Well this time it didnt start at all. Cranked, didn't even act like it wants to start. Now my assumption is the nearly running out of fuel is the root of all evil here, but it gets even better.

So I give it brief cranks to ensure my starter does not overheat, and bleed the schrader valve on the filter to get air out as I am doing so. I did this for about a half hour, still didnt even act like it wants to start. Then my batteries die, in the middle of a parking lot. Great.

So someone driving a nice new shiny cummins is kind enough to offer a jump. Nice guy, but I had to hear the usual Ford bashing. Yeah, his $40k dodge is going to be a bit healthier than my $900 dollar truck thats 3 times older than his. Anyway, nothing. Still wont even crank.

Multimeter out, both batteries test 12.58 volts, the draw while cranking isnt bad, and ALL cables test only 0.3 ohms.

So the batteries are charged, and the cables are good, but the engine cranks like the batteries are nearly dead now.

After letting it sit, no cranking attemps sitting that is, for about 20 minutes, I get under to check the starter and its hot to the touch.

Am I correct in assuming my starter has done one of two things, either heat soaked, or kicked the bucket?

I took the batteries out overnight, gonna take em in just to make sure theyre tested fine, then see if it will do anything, I just want opinions before I replace the starter.

 

[ah1988ford]

Get your batteries load tested they may still hold a good charge but when they are put under load they bog down. When you are cranking it over losen the injector lines where they connect to the injectors a little, this will tell you if you are even getting fuel to the injectors. If the batteries test out good and it still cranks really slow you can take the starter out and get it tested at autozone, you can also get your batteries tested there as well. Make sure your fuel filter isnt clogged also empty water separator. Check your return lines they can be leaking and taking in air causing a hard start, keep in mind it may not be just one thing making it hard to start it may be multiple things combined.

 

[franklin2]

How did you charge the batteries? From what I read, you tried to crank it for 30 minutes. That's going to drain the batteries. Then you tried to jump it. I don't care what kind of vehicle is trying to jump you, I have never had any vehicle be able to turn one of these engines over good enough to start it. Maybe if you had 2 sets of quality jumper cables both hooked to another diesel, I have never tried that.

Letting it sit is not going to give you much of anything from the batteries. I would take them out like you did, take them home, and charge both of them overnight on a slow charge. They will then be ready for another 30 minutes of trying.

Since you are stuck, and don't know what's wrong with it, and your injection pump is suspect, I believe in this situation I would stop by and get a can of ether, disconnect the glowplugs, and give it a short burst of ether through the aircleaner to help things out. Used conservatively, it will not hurt anything. But don't be sitting there spraying it continually trying to run the engine on it. Just little short squirts to help things along.

 

[Blind Driver2]

Just because you have voltage, doesn't mean you have amperage.

Your starter may be toast.

 

[GOOSE]

You can get your batteries and your starter bench tested at any local parts store. It sounds like air intrusion may be a culprit. If both of the gauges are not working, the shower heads in the tank may be broken off as well. I have not tried but they say the front tank's sending unit is accessible without needing to drop the tank. It may be a good idea to start there. If I remember correctly, some 3/8" diesel rated hose will do justice with an inverted "v" cut in it. make it long enough to reach the bottom of the tank. It has been recommended to wrap a screen of some sort around it to prevent debris from clogging your fuel selector valve. This is one area you can repair and replace the parts for cheap money, line and hose clamps......$10 maybe?

Replace your filter as well. With unknown history, it could be clogged tight and be the root of your problem. Also try cranking over the engine while someone pushes in on the scrader valve located on your fuel filter housing. Fuel should shoot out in short quick bursts indicating that your lift pump is in working order and is getting fuel from the tank. Russ aka Typ4 has the nicest return line kits going, for less than $50 if I remember. Keep that in mind if the leaking gets really bad. Just remember, 3 times as much air gets in so if you see diesel, the system is gulping plenty of air.

We are assuming that the gp system operates as it should and is not contributing to the engine's inability to start, correct?

Hopefully your starter and batteries will test ok giving you some money to fix the real culprit, air intrusion and fuel delivery.

One final issue to ponder, the injection pump just may have called it quits. Sorry, it does happen.

 

[zacky6661]

You can get your batteries and your starter bench tested at any local parts store. It sounds like air intrusion may be a culprit. If both of the gauges are not working, the shower heads in the tank may be broken off as well.

Also try cranking over the engine while someone pushes in on the scrader valve located on your fuel filter housing. Fuel should shoot out in short quick bursts indicating that your lift pump is in working order and is getting fuel from the tank.

We are assuming that the gp system operates as it should and is not contributing to the engine's inability to start, correct?

Hopefully your starter and batteries will test ok giving you some money to fix the real culprit, air intrusion and fuel delivery.

One final issue to ponder, the injection pump just may have called it quits. Sorry, it does happen.

schrader wasnt getting any fuel at all, just air came out... and by fuel guages not working, I mean the reading is constantly changing. back tank got me roughly 240 miles when I bought it, never ran the front tank until now, cause those 240 miles are all the miles I've tacked on since I bought it a month and a half ago.. Maybe thats why I get no fuel at the filter... But then you would think that It would show WORSE symptoms of no fuel if the front tank was empty, cause when I switched tanks it started running like normal, slow n' sluggish lol.

 

[zacky6661]

and @ franklin 2, my friend came later (in another cummins.... dodge boys were barkin all day at me =P) and we tried jumping it again, but this time gave it more time to charge.

We did notice that his alternator did'nt start making any noise at all the entire time, normally you sort of hear them when they are under load, and charging another battery would certainly put them under load by my logic.

 

[mobilemech]

if you got no fuel at the schrader valve, you will not get it to start, no fuel in the injector pump to push to injectors. put some fuel in it before you try to start it again or your just wasting your time and taking life out of your parts

 

[dgr]

So you don't know how much fuel is in the front tank and you are only getting air out of the schraeder valve? And, you have never used the front tank until now? I would suggest 5 gallons of diesel in the back tank and go back to square one.

Was your fuel filter full of fuel? Did you fill it and try to start?

If you want to eliminate the tanks, you can run a hose from the lift pump to a can of diesel. But you already know the rear tank was working

Dumb question but why would one keep cranking for 30 minutes? Is there a likely scenario where 5 minutes of cranking won't do it but 30 will?

You need fuel to the suction side of the lift pump. You need fuel through the fuel filter to the injection pump. You need high pressure generated inside the injection pump to feed the injection side and you need the injection side to generate really high pressure to the injectors. That's about it other than keeping air out of the fuel

 

[Hydro-idi]

Somebody should work on a design to get these idi's to run on air aye !

 

[mobilemech]

then the greasy govt. would charge for air.

 

[ah1988ford]

Make sure you have diesel in the tank that might help lol, try to get above a 1/4 because even if the pick up neck is broken I think you can still get fuel someone correct me if I am wrong, then check the sending unit then make sure your lift pump is working properly. If you know the truck has been sitting for a while you may want to clean the lines out just to make sure there isnt any blockage. Trace everything back until you find the culpret. As Goose has stated just check and see if your gp system is working properly it definetly helps.

 

[GOOSE]

I would concentrate on getting fuel to your lift pump. How ever your truck ran, on the rear tank? Go back to that and add some more fuel, 5-10 gal. this will get your fuel up past any bad sections in the sump, if it does have a bad sump. Get a small electric fuel pump, I think Advance Auto has a green colored one made by Mr. Gasket for about $30. Get 4" of 3/8 hose , some clamps, extra wire, butt splices and alligator clips to attach it to your battery. Take the supply line off of the lift pump and put the electric pump there. Now you can use the electric pump to draw fuel and troubleshoot instead of cranking the guts out of your engine. Get fuel to the lift pump, fill a new filter with fuel, and go from there.