Cummins 12V in a 1986 F-250...

[TBigLug]

Well, the old **** is giving me problems. Had to have a truck to haul horses to the tree farm this year to make my money so I ended up buying a 1993 Dodge D-250 off a buddy of mine with a 5.9 CTD and a 46RH. Don't much care for Dodge trucks but the price was right and the thing runs spectacularly. When it warms up come Spring I think I've decided to put the motor and tranny out of the ole Dodge into the ****. I've decided even though I'm a Chevy guy, I DEARLY love my old truck and feel I have to give it a fair shake at a new heart.

Got a couple questions for you "Outsiders" j/k that have committed the "Cummins in a Ford" sin...

Is the GP relay strong enough to habdle the intake heater of the Cummins? I'll be using just a manual push button that's already in the truck.

Can I reuse the Dodge's radiator? People say it's small but it's BRAND NEW.

Does it make more sense to reuse the Ford crossmember or use the one out of the Dodge?

What mods need to be done to the crossmember? Not sure how each trucks mounts work. I'm away from both at the moment.

Are there any firewall "massages" that need to be done to make it fit?

How does the Dodge 46RH speedometer cable/ sensor compare to the Ford C6's? Are they both cable? Will one cable work in the other tranny?

Any advice before I get started?


The plan is to pull out and sell the 6.9/ C6 out of the Ford. Pull the 5.9/ 46RH out of the Dodge. Use motor mounting kit from http://www.fordcummins.com/80-ford-12v-engine-mounting-kit.html to get it in there. I think I can reuse the yoke from the Dodge's driveshaft, cut down my driveshaft and get an offset U-joint to hook the Dodge yoke to the Ford shaft. Exhaust would just be a straight pipe. I would just take it in for a new pipe down from the turbo to my stock Ford exhaust.

It all sounds pretty simple on paper, just trying to preplan for some troubles down the road.

For grins, here's the ad from when my buddy was trying to sell the Dodge to give you an idea of what I'm working with. I won't tell you what I ACTUALLY paid for it. High miles but the tranny's been rebuilt before and the motor produces minimal blowby and has more than enough power.

http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/2029138712.html

 

[TBigLug]

Oh, and since one of the questions will probably be "What's so wrong with your truck that you don't just fix it?"

Water pump shot, glow plugs non-op (4-6 of them), tranny is producing a shudder (bad) under load and now under normal driving conditions and I think the IP is getting weak.

Bottom line, it'll cost me about $1,000 (more than I paid for the Dodge) or so to fix these problems and I'll still have my same old 6.9. That and I've always wanted a Cummins motor...

 

[grog85]

You dog, you! Good buy on that one. I believe it will fit between the firewall & radiator. I don't know about any crossmember mods, but Fordcummins should be able to help you. Use whatever radiator will fit, the cummins doesn't seem to have any heating issues. I put 360,000 on my 92 D350, no engine issues- but 4 518 tranny rebuilds, 3 rearends.

 

[Darrin Tosh]

Is the GP relay strong enough to habdle the intake heater of the Cummins? I'll be using just a manual push button that's already in the truck.

You wont use the GP Realy, you should use the Dodge wiring, Not sure how it works but since you have the doner truck it should be pretty easy to install. I don't have a Grid Heater on mine but don't drive it in the winter. It has been starting fine for me and have started it as cold as 20 deg.

Can I reuse the Dodge's radiator? People say it's small but it's BRAND NEW.

You would be better keeping the Ford Radiator, there is no fabrication to put it in the truck, it is way bigger than the Dodge, and you will have NO cooling problems with that big of Radiator.

Does it make more sense to reuse the Ford crossmember or use the one out of the Dodge?

If you are talking the motor crossmember, Keep the one in the Ford, it clears just fine, If you are talking the Trans Crossmember, I don't know without looking at either, but would lean toward making the Ford one work.

What mods need to be done to the crossmember? Not sure how each trucks mounts work. I'm away from both at the moment.

None, if you have the correct motor mounts, it is a bolt in application.

Are there any firewall "massages" that need to be done to make it fit?

Yup, I had to massage the firewall back (with a large swinging type of tool with a heavy end on it) about 2" to make enough room for the rear valve cover.

How does the Dodge 46RH speedometer cable/ sensor compare to the Ford C6's? Are they both cable? Will one cable work in the other tranny?

No Clue,,....

Any advice before I get started?

Take your time, get all of the parts ahead of time, and plan on it taking longer than expected, But it is worth the swap!

Here is a link to my conversion, If you ahve any questions don't be afraid to ask!

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21780&highlight=cummins+conversion

 

[dyoung14]

Another traitor

 

[crashnzuk]

I have never dealt with them, but everything I've heard is that Fordcummins is not a good place to deal with. Do your research before you buy anything from anyone. A guy on Pirate4x4 just did a Cummins swap and used the dodge radiator, shroud, hoses, etc and said it looks factory. You will have zero issues with cooling using the Dodge stuff, plus you will be able to use readily available off-the-shelf parts if you happen to ever have a problem away from home. The dodge intercooler should be fairly easy to fit with the Dodge radiator, though there is precious little room behind the grill on a slant nose Ford. You may need an aftermarket grill insert for enough room to fit a condenser (if equipped) and intercooler. The Dodge uses 2 large relays on the drivers fender for the grids, just use them and wire your button to them. You most likely will only need them below freezing. Every Ford/Cummins thread I have seen on the net has had the crossmember below the engine modified, so I would be willing to bet it will need some attention. As for clearance between the turbo and HVAC box, I'd look into a low mount turbo manifold, they are readily available and put the turbo right against the side of the engine block.
Travis..

 

[towcat]

Another traitor

don't be so quick swinging the lightsabre.
the last guy who was the champion of the IDI, is now talking about turning the "E" into swiss cheese.

 

[dyoung14]

don't be so quick swinging the lightsabre.
the last guy who was the champion of the IDI, is now talking about turning the "E" into swiss cheese.

I just kidding,

Its his truck, so if he wants to put a CUMAPART in it thats fine

But a IDI is staying under my hood

 

[BigRigTech]

I'm looking at this swap for my F350 this swing as well. I have a rebuilt 5.9 12V here already and I have a 7.3T from a 94 F250 on it's way, one of the two will replace the 6.9 this spring after plowing seasons over - the old 6.9 just can't pull the hills up to my standards........The Cummins would be the easiest to make some decent power but the 7.3T would be cheaper to swap in....I guess I will have to wait and see how the 7.3T runs/sounds first.

 

[Exekiel69]

I wired My own heater using parts for up to 125A, and it works well but it is manual now automatic. You'll want to use the block heater anyways when it get too cold, the grid heater is mainly for emissions won't actually help the engine start and if anything it will drain Your batteries quicker if You try to crank the engine with the heater ON.

Keep the ford rad and sell the new odge rad don't even think about it.

I got ford cummins motor mounts and they work well so far but I don't like the fact I have to put a jack on the back if I have to pull the tranny. I didn't use the dodge fuel filter but made a little bracket to mount the ford one.

Replace all oil seals before You the engine IN and make sure they are cummins seals, give them the engine serial # and order the seals WITH the wear sleeve.

You'll need a pyro and boost gauge if You don't have one.

Enjoy .

 

[Exekiel69]

Oh and for the transmission, at first I used the dodge but didn't like the way it looked so I put the ford cm back with the ZF mount. Much stronger and looks a lot better with minor modifications. Don't know on an automatic but I think they use similar mounts from dodge so it might work the same.

Also, My truck has a 2" body lift and I doesn't touch the firewall. The engine mounts You use will also affect that and mine has lots of room.

 

[TBigLug]

grog- That was my thought when it came to the radiator. We haul as heavy of loads across the same highways in the Dodge as we did my Ford and never had any overheating problems in it.

DT- That's a good lookin' truck! I think my swap will be simpler than yours since I'm using the Dodge motor and tranny with it being 2WD but I got alot of good insight reading through your posts. Only problem I had with considering keeping my radiator is it leaks. It does look like it would cool down a battleship though! lol Be prepared, once I get to diving into this I'll definitely be picking your brain along the way. Maybe someday when I'm over in GR I'll stop in and check out the swap for myself.

dyoung- You are die hard IH to the bone man. Gotta respect a guy that stands behind his brand!

crashnzuk- I didn't get a chance to Google problems with FordCummins. Do you remember what the problems were about? As long as it's customer service and not the parts failing I can deal with that. There's usually too much trash talk and yo momma this and that on Pirate4x4 so I don't ever go over there. Kinda like trying to have a conversation on a CB. It's become so polluted with filth it's hard to get to the good stuff. Ideally I'd like to remove all the AC crap off my truck anyways. It doesn't work for some reason and I've got the Cavalier if I need to drive somewhere on a hot day. I think with the condenser out of the way I should have clearence for the IC and tranny cooler. If not I can always hollow out the back of the grille... I think FordCummins even sells a low mount manifold if I'm not mistaken. I may do that anyway just to keep some extra room under the hood. Unless it's gonna make working on it harder... We'll see.

Exekiel- Could you take a picture of the FC motor mounts? What do you mean you have to put the jack on the back to pull the tranny? Does the mounts move the tranny up to high to pull it straight back? I thought about the 2" lift to keep from beating stuff up but I haven't decided yet. Might look funny on a 2WD truck... I'm thinking about starting a thread in the 5.9 section to decide what kind of "freshening up" I should do to the 5.9 before dropping it in. I know I'll be rebuilding the tranny (might as well while it's out) but I don't know if I'll have saved enough scratch to rebuild the motor or if I can just re ring it, etc.

Thanks so far for all the input guys. Keep it coming.

 

[TBigLug]

One of my other deciding factors in this swap was the side by side. I hooked the Dodge to the same trailer as my Ford and gave it a run. In the **** it's foot to the floor, lotsa loud noise, SLOW acceleration that doesn't get much better as RPM's increase. This Dodge hooked to the same trailer you lay on the long peddle and it just pulls harder and harder like a freight train. The motors might not be too far apart on the numbers but they drive a whole world apart. That and I wanted an OD. Considering the two trucks are almost exactly the same (diesels, automatics, 3:55's (ish) and 2WD) only difference is the **** is a little heavier being an extended cab.

 

[hesutton]

Sounds like a good project. Lots of guys here (as you've found) that have made the swap and can help out along the way. Take lots of phots and post'em to keep us up to date on the progress. Then you have to come to a Rally and show us the truck in person.

I'm still waiting to see someone here swap in a IH DT360 (IH's 5.9L, 12 valve, wet sleeved counterpart to the 5.9L Cummins).

Me.........I'm going a little bigger with the DT466.

Heath

 

[TBigLug]

Heath- I would LOVE to do the DT360 or 466 swap. If money weren't an option and I hadn't gotten such a killer deal on this truck that would have been the route I took.