Building "THE ROCK"

[Greg5OH]

I have always been tickled by the idea of having an unstoppable, ultimate machine truck. Capable of almost anything. Take it anywhere. Tow anything. Capable of pulling itself and a loud out.

My budget-10k. This may or may not include engine. This will be about a 2 year project. What is set in stone-Crewcab Long box. Dont know which frame or body style yet. Im not concerned with the front grille as I plan on doing a totally scratch built front fascia. Large sealed beam round lights, tube and C channel bumpers and grille. Real post apocalyptic looking.

I want to be able to tow 2-3 small cars (sub 3000 lb race cars) on a wedge trailer, or at least a double car hauler across the country. Crawl through deep mud and snow. If it gets stuck, pull itself and perhaps a stranded trail rider out too. And I want to be comfortable like a pig in **** while doing it in a very quiet, smooth cabin.

Phase 1:
Frame (blasted, coated), brakes (hydro boost), suspension, Rolling gear. Dana 60 and sterling 10.5 maybe?. A tall tire, no wider than 12". Would like 35" tall. Great tire for mud, snow, ice. Wear good when hauling heavy.


Phase 2:
fuel tanks, air tank, all lines run. Front and rear tow hitches, As well as a 5th wheel hookup. What kind of winches?
Thinking ob board generator.
Run all wiring. Rig will have quite a bit of lighting wattage. Ability to run power tools. However the generator can be used for that.


Phase 3:
Body and Interior.
Two captain chairs upfront, rear bench able to slide and fold flat. Comfort is number 1 for passenger and copilot. Would like to duct heat and AC to the rear as well. Heated front seats. NO LEATHER. Details about interior equipment to come.

Phase 4: Engine and transmission. I would be using a stock 7.3 idi for now, perhaps....perhaps a cummins... Still undecided on zf5 or a well built auto. I dont really trust an automatic. A splitter would also be necessary.

Im just hashing out ideas.
Would like input on what are the strongest, toughest peices I can put on this truck. Which is the best frame? Can and how should I reinforce it? Engine details will be sorted later.
I have 1991 F350 SRC 2WD I have. Can either use it to tow back an awesome parts truck from somewhere, or strip and build this one from the ground.

I hope this project will meet its goal in 2 years. I will be updating it periodically.
I am also seeking any input or suggestions the community may have.

one this is for sure: The main truck will be a FORD!

 

[kc0stp]

(Sry the following is just a clump of ideas/suggestions as I think of them, although this is along similar lines of what Im thinking eventually for my truck)

Far as reinforcing the frame you can fully box it in (lots of work), Ive yet to find a tire both good in mud and ice as to truly be good on ice requires studs and small tread voids (I ice race my IDI in the winter) where as mud requires large tread blocks with huge voids. Far as winches go Warn 15k's should do the trick, can easily wire them into switches inside the cab. IMHO if your after tow anything skip the light duty transmissions and go with a 10 speed out of a semi, theres a reason they can haul 80k lbs with only 300 hp. Rear axle wise instead of going with a 10.5 you might consider a Dana 60 out of a first gen Superduty van (99-03?), disk brake and bolt in for our trucks I believe and don't forget the lockers 4X4 with open diffs = 2wd (1 per axle) and Ive experienced first hand how worthless that is in the deep snow when I buried my truck up to the top of the bumper(s). As far as compressed air goes Id seriously consider using a York on-board air setup if you can, nothing easily installable can beat its output and its designed for extended use. Another thing to keep in mind when it comes to the lighting is to make sure you get a light that can stand up to the abuse (Rigid industries are good but big $$$) otherwise they'll either not work when you need them or youll be replacing them frequently.

 

[Greg5OH]

thanks for the input kc.

What kind of transmission should I be looking at specifically? Dimensions and weight? Bellhousing adapter needed?
I never even considered that option but like the sound of it.

Thinking divorced T case as well, np205.

 

[kc0stp]

Youd need an SAE bellhousing adapter found on an IDI used in commercial applications (basically anything with a non Ford tranny) and I believe the favored tranny is the Eaton Fuller rto6610 that said the easiest way to do it is to get a donor commercial complete with bellhousing, clutch and tranny so you have all the parts. Not sure on exact dimensions but Ive been told it fits in our trucks but youll need an air supply for the splitter. If you do go that route youll have to use a divorced case as far as I know but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if someone has come up with a way to do a non divorced setup.

 

[Greg5OH]

whats thr weight on one of those? More importantly-what kind of firewall or trans tunnel modifications would be required? Body lift? in totally ok with air shift.
how would it be for daily unloaded driving? Can you start off in 3rd or something? (I have no clue about these transmissions, have to start researching).

Whats the cost of a total bolt up deal(bell, clutch, trans)?

Im assuming 350 horse out of a well built idi with this 10 speed should be able to pull 18k lbs no problem, get decent mileage, and last 200k miles before a rebuild or clutch service? Am i expecting too much?

 

[Agnem]

Are you familiar with the Turtle Expedition? They have had several trucks over the years that more or less conform to your idea of severe duty. Many were IDI's.

 

[Greg5OH]

the turtles are nice, Just i wouldnt be building an extended survival vehicle with sleeper and kitchen. Just the fold down rear bench for naps.
Auto locking hubs and air lockers as well as extended axle breathers are necessary.

What kind of mileage could one see from towing 18k lbs with one of these eaton fullers, behind either a turbo IDI or a cummins?
I kind of want to stick with an IDI, but if the mileage is significantly better in a cummins...And both seem to last just as long with no major issues.

 

[dizdak]

with the size and weight truck you are wanting to put together, front and rear mounted winches are a must in my opinion..12k lbs min rating!!

 

[Greg5OH]

ramsey or warn only option im assuming?

 

[riotwarrior]

Phase 1:
Frame (blasted, coated), brakes (hydro boost), suspension, Rolling gear. Dana 60 and sterling 10.5 maybe?. A tall tire, no wider than 12". Would like 35" tall. Great tire for mud, snow, ice. Wear good when hauling heavy.

I would consider a NEWER D60 or the super 60 with thicker tubes from a newer 05 SD 450 and then add on the spindle kit to eliminate the unit bearing front hubs

Tyres are a well...subjective conversation...

Phase 2:
fuel tanks, air tank, all lines run. Front and rear tow hitches, As well as a 5th wheel hookup. What kind of winches?
Thinking ob board generator.
Run all wiring. Rig will have quite a bit of lighting wattage. Ability to run power tools. However the generator can be used for that.

For what you are doing, I'd give very strong consideration to an 18K electric up front and 20K hydraulic or PTO in bed!
Powermaster alternator for high amperage output when you need it. With that an asskicking inverter 3000 watt or larger can and will produce enough current for most AC applications drills, grinders etc!

Phase 3:
Body and Interior.
Two captain chairs upfront, rear bench able to slide and fold flat. Comfort is number 1 for passenger and copilot. Would like to duct heat and AC to the rear as well. Heated front seats. NO LEATHER. Details about interior equipment to come.

Look into a rear heater from a van or something perhaps with it's own blower, that would sure be nice Not sure bout t slide flat rear seat but eh, worth inventing one!

Phase 4: Engine and transmission. I would be using a stock 7.3 idi for now, perhaps....perhaps a cummins... Still undecided on zf5 or a well built auto. I dont really trust an automatic. A splitter would also be necessary.

Nothing wrong with the IDI they can and do make decent power, not sure but a 4R100 Auto would be nice, and could be built, but that = $$$ Standards are less $.

I read you consider a divorced 205 why? Why not go married find a 203 range box and have a doubler for ultra low gearing when needed and keep some hiway gearing for interstate?

AUTO locking hubs....NO NO NO NO NO...did I mention NO to auto locking hubs...grenades on an axle I say...get some premium WARN hubs or another premium brand...NO auto lockers

Im just hashing out ideas.
Would like input on what are the strongest, toughest peices I can put on this truck. Which is the best frame? Can and how should I reinforce it? Engine details will be sorted later.
I have 1991 F350 SRC 2WD I have. Can either use it to tow back an awesome parts truck from somewhere, or strip and build this one from the ground.

I hope this project will meet its goal in 2 years. I will be updating it periodically.
I am also seeking any input or suggestions the community may have.

one this is for sure: The main truck will be a FORD!

Best frame, I'd say is a super duty F450 and not sure if they come in CC version or not but they are the strongest thickest for sure in our body styles.

Sounds like a great project have fun and take lots of pics and post em

Good luck

Al

 

[Black dawg]

I would stick with the 10.25 over a rear 60 for a truck this size. And as far as manual vs auto, using a 205, if you go auto, you will be very dissapointed with the 205 IF you dont have a doubler.

As far as engine, if you can do a cummins easily then do it, otherwise with a gear splitter a mild idit would work good.

 

[Greg5OH]

Regarding the frame-old style 450s didnt come crewcab. What sort of challenges am i facing trying to stick a CC LB onto a 450 frame?

 

[kc0stp]

IMHO a KP D60 with the 35 spline axle upgrade is really close to unbreakable so long as you don't have Warn hubs (or a cheap china brand), if you still want lock/unlock ability the new Yukons are the closest your going to get but still cant compare to drive lugs.

 

[79jasper]

I saw a obs cc f450 on clist not long ago.

I've seen one vote for warn hubs, one said to stay away.
Why?

 

[kc0stp]

Personally Ive seen way to many explode while off-roading (admittedly the same trails are known to break axles so...) frankly if your truly going for an unbreakable front end at the very least you need the new Yukon selectable hubs if you don't go with drive lugs instead (permanently engaged hubs) but the question always becomes whats the weakest link? With a D60 its typically the hubs, after that the axles/u-joints

*edit/addon* Don't get me wrong Warn are some of the best hubs on the market but compared to the rest of the front end there very easy to break. Ideally you want the tires to loose traction/driver back out before anything else breaks, that doesn't normally happen with Warn hubs (or almost any other selectable hub with the exception of Yukons new ones)