Building an IDI for Nitrous

[laserjock]

I talked to Heath at the rally and IIRC he is running ~20 lbs of boost with the Moose Boost turbo on stock compression. Heads studded with typ4 cam. Lots of miles towing so far and no issues. I like that you are thinking outside the box but it is really hard to beat a turbo for efficiency and you don't have to keep filling bottles. They are really starting to get popular among the drag racing crowd just because you can do a lot of tuning with them if you want. A lot of my "pondering" early on in my project was thinking about an auxiliary fuel system that was on demand, kinda like a wet kit, but I went simple (in many aspects of the word). For what it's worth, talking to Heath, the big benefit seems to be driveablity more than just more power. He said it cleaned up his soot problem and the thing I found interesting is he said that he doesn't loose his boost on a shift with this turbo like the banks. Probably a result of the ball bearing turbo. That's a big plus in my mind. I hope I see a similar result.


Sorry for the rambling hijack.

 

[IDIoit]

nitrous oxide.
NO^2
why not just take the nitrogen out of the equation and run a straight oxy bottle? :melt:

 

[Thewespaul]

nitrous oxide.
NO^2
why not just take the nitrogen out of the equation and run a straight oxy bottle? :melt:

"As the bond breaks apart the nitrogen acts as a heat absorbent and the oxygen increases the ability to burn more fuel."
-http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Nitrous%20Oxide.html

I've had a few suggestions like that and interestingly nitrogen is a very important role in making power with nitrous (mostly the help keep your engine from melting part, not the making power part)


Laserjock undoubtedly turbos are very nice for tuneability and for having power all the time but what do you do when you want 200+ hp at the wheels and you want to keep your NA sound?

I just want to try something out of the box and have a setup up thats pretty different from other IDI's (Although I'll never have a truck as clean as yours) I also just want to supply the IDI community with valuable information that for the time being doesn't really exist much at all. My goals are to make decent power on a dyno and supply everyone with dyno sheets and a clean writeup on how I did everything including costs and links. If I blow up in glory like evryone at truck meets tells me I will then I'll do a writeup on that, and everyone will be better off from my mistake

 

[03wr250f]

thewespaul couple thoughts in the ways you are searching for power head studs would be on my list.
have you thought about doing headers? should gain you more power and keep the v8 gasser sound of n/a.
also i know justin anderson tried to do what you are after. I believe he made 170/300 in his bronco. He had i want to say a 110 pump, stage 1s, i belive custom manifolds and a intake on it. He might have even had one of his cams in it as well.
He said it was really smokey but the 20 mpgs out of it was nice. His goal was to see how far n/a they could go. He said that it wasnt worth all of the money when you could swap on any turbo kit and basically get the same results. I think it is cool what you are doing and more power to you. Just some food for thought.

 

[Thewespaul]

I'll probably just buy the flanges and build headers myself, as pretty as the stans headers are nearly 1K without shipping is out of my league! I wouldn't be surprised if I am not the first one to test the limits of NA and although I've never seen or heard of that build, I know I can do better than 170 at wheels, especially considering my truck in my sig made 160 at the wheels when I first got it and all I had done was turned up the pump, exhaust and intake. I'm shooting for 400 ftlbs torque but in the end if I am disappointed by the numbers, I know a few friends who would trade my nitrous setup for their turbo setup straight across and with studs and a rebuilt engine, you just can't go wrong

 

[FordGuy100]

About 10 years ago I asked about nitrous. One guy chimed up that he used such a large shot one time it actually stalled out the engine. It was on a 6.9 iirc.

 

[rhkcommander]

I swear I read about a guy NA running around 200hp. The key is air, always was and will be that is why everything diesel has a turbo usually, sometimes a blower. Forced- ram air will help your road performance, but if you do a dyno the shop fan wont give you a true representation. I mean bigger than the stock junk that goes next to the radiator too.

If you have the stock filter housing, swap it out. 3.5 or 4" piping would be ideal, they have different options for a intake hat that could work for you, or take a carb cover and drill and weld in a pipe.

I tell everyone I can, ceramic coat your exhaust. Its pretty cheap and will keep a lot more heat out from under the hood. I think a lot of IDIs with heat problems could be helped with that. My old engine was so hot the hood would steam when wet. Borderline painful to touch for long. After I had everything including the turbo hotside ceramic coated from exhaust manifolds to downpipe on the new engine its barely warm. This banks turbo which is usually known for being laggy IIRC boosts much quicker now too since a lot less heat is being lost. I can open the hood and it will be warm, whereas before it was HOT. Wish I took the time to do a before and after, oh well.


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I've seen old turbos go from 550-750 here sometimes. Your NOS kit will cost half that or more? If you actually tow with the truck you might be pissed when your towing a hill/mountain and the bottle goes flat. Its your truck do what you will, good luck. I wouldnt mind some NOS with my turbo, a little more aggressive take off and no smoke, have it cutoff after boost builds up enough to keep it clean

 

[Thewespaul]

About 10 years ago I asked about nitrous. One guy chimed up that he used such a large shot one time it actually stalled out the engine. It was on a 6.9 iirc.

Wouldn't be surprised, just another example of how nitrous doesn't blow up engines, people do!

I swear I read about a guy NA running around 200hp. The key is air, always was and will be that is why everything diesel has a turbo usually, sometimes a blower. Forced- ram air will help your road performance, but if you do a dyno the shop fan wont give you a true representation. I mean bigger than the stock junk that goes next to the radiator too.

If you have the stock filter housing, swap it out. 3.5 or 4" piping would be ideal, they have different options for a intake hat that could work for you, or take a carb cover and drill and weld in a pipe.

I tell everyone I can, ceramic coat your exhaust. Its pretty cheap and will keep a lot more heat out from under the hood. I think a lot of IDIs with heat problems could be helped with that. My old engine was so hot the hood would steam when wet. Borderline painful to touch for long. After I had everything including the turbo hotside ceramic coated from exhaust manifolds to downpipe on the new engine its barely warm. This banks turbo which is usually known for being laggy IIRC boosts much quicker now too since a lot less heat is being lost. I can open the hood and it will be warm, whereas before it was HOT. Wish I took the time to do a before and after, oh well.


---
I've seen old turbos go from 550-750 here sometimes. Your NOS kit will cost half that or more? If you actually tow with the truck you might be pissed when your towing a hill/mountain and the bottle goes flat. Its your truck do what you will, good luck. I wouldnt mind some NOS with my turbo, a little more aggressive take off and no smoke, have it cutoff after boost builds up enough to keep it clean

Read my sig, I have tackled the intake issue already. Ceramic coating would be a good idea but I like cooking my tacos under my hood in the mornings... hmmm priorities...

My nitrous setup I could probably turn around for about 6-700. Custom powdercoated bottle, bottle heater with automatic pressure shuttoff and drain line with fail safe. Electric pressure gauge and sending unit with remote mount in cab, 4an line from tool box to frame to under hood, single dry solenoid good for up to a 400 shot (still have wet solenoid that matches) single nozzle and jet tapped into intake, dual purge lines, rpm window unit and remote activation/shuttoff in cab. Paid about $400 for everything but its a pretty great setup for almost any application

 

[riotwarrior]

So far like the idea but could be hard to manage...

Really nitrous is just a supercharger in a bottle....thats it...as dumbed down as it gets.

Now how to control it is the challenge...

Hwat for you have O2 sensor what is it going to? How have you wired it up?

I am guessing to read af ratio when on the bottle?

 

[Thewespaul]

Yeah even more basic just injecting more oxygen molecules into the engine. I have an afr gauge on my a pillar, pyro is very useful and basically a requirment on diesels but the afr gauge has been even greater for tuning and troubleshooting, especially with its data logging ability. I use it all the time but it will be my main focus for when I'm jetting my nitrous.

 

[82F100SWB]

I think tuning for afr is going to be very difficult with a fixed rate of nitrous as you don't have direct control of the fuel rate, it is always at the mercy of the pump governor.
This is where turbocharging shines as drive pressure is directly related to fuel rate, and therefore boost pressure is as well. However, the db2's lack of boost reference to fuel rate is a big strike against tuning for afr even when turboed as well.

 

[Thewespaul]

Well once I get spare change in my pickle jar for an order to Conestoga, I'll be ordering misters and a moose junior and will be able to have a lot of adjustibility there as far as fuel. Nitrous amounts can always be changed with various jets.

 

[FordGuy100]

Dude, just get a turbo Used kits are cheap these days

 

[Thewespaul]

Why not just ls swap it? Because I don't want to go about my build like everyone else. I want to push the limits and try something new. Thats what hot rodding is all about.

 

[FordGuy100]

You paid effectively the going rate for some used turbo kits, which in the end will burn all the fuel that you are planning on throwing at it. Nitrous will undoubtedly yield higher if done right, but for short orders of time. I like how your trying to adjust using an O2 sensor. But in the end your only going to be able to squeeze X amount of HP/TQ out of the fuel that you will have available to you, where a turbo will allow you to burn that fuel all of the time.

If your really into hot rodding, might as well build yourself a turbo kit. You'll kick yourself in the butt for not doing it sooner.