black smoke riddle

[punkmechanic]

I need some help from the collective to figure out what is going on with my truck.

first the background. Bought the truck a year and 20k miles ago in florida. Its an 87 with a 6.9 and was a c6. The motor was swapped before I got the truck, supposedly an actual ih 6.9 from the ih dealer. No proof of that. The truck had sat for some time and didnt want to fire when I got to it. New gp's (motorcraft) and it ran great. Found a zf5 and bought a hypermax pulse turbo. Ran better. Never been a real powerhouse but it would get out of its own way and ran when I needed it (everyday as it was my daily driver). Pulled a uhaul 3500 miles from florida to oregon where I now live. Overheated it pulling a grade on the way out here (stuck in missoula) but once it cooled down and had coolant back in it, seemed fine. I have always had slight oil leaks, nothing major and I dont lose much between changes so never really worried about it.

I started to run waste trans fluid around the first of the year and ran up to a 50/50 mix till 3 months ago. I started smokeing way more under load and was losing power. switched to straight ulsd puke and tried that for a few weeks with no real improvement. swapped out injectors with ones from a solid running core motor at work ( the owner had just had them replaced by another shop, and we found 2 dead holes and sold him a reman). Some improvement but still not "right". Had the pump rebuilt by a local, recommended, reputible shop. More improvement but Still not "right". Checked the timing and advanced it a bit, no real change. I have been around a few of these trucks that are owned by other members and can say for sure mine has the least power and is the slowest. I might have non turbo power with the hypermax installed.

The last month it has sat more than its ran and when I do run it Im afraid Im gonna get a mass polluting ticket from the portland police. I can cloud a 4 lane highway with dark black smoke, if Im pulling a hill. She seems fine on flat ground, but as soon as I hit a hill, egts and boost climb to limit (i remove foot from floor) and the truck slows. down shift and repeat.

I have 5 of the 8 cylinders comp tested with good results (lowest is 390 and highest is 420, all jump to 210-230 first crank). performed a blowby test with the rotunda meter at work and got a 2.5 on the magnehelic gauge with the allowable being 4-5 and dusted being 6+. I cant find a thing wrong but something sure aint right.

Anyone else have a similar situation? Im running out of ideas. Im not getting rid of the truck, but I dont want to pull the motor if it isnt back (probably going to soon to do head studs and gaskets and reseal the oil pan, anyway).

Im going to steam clean the engine and finish the comp test. Any ideas are more than welcome.

Im near broke and hope to be moving out of this **** hole apartment soon so I need the ol girl to at least get the move completed then hopefully I can pull the motor and tear it down if need be.

Im leaning towards the injectors being toasted from the waste trans oil. I filtered it down to 4 micron but I still feel that could be a contributing factor in all of this. If the comp test is good then a new set of injectors is in the works, after that I have no idea.

thanks in advance

punk
aka Justin

 

[The Warden]

Dumb question, but how are your fuel and air filters?

Any chance you might have a boost leak at the intake manifold? You said that your turbo boost goes up to the limit, but what exactly are you seeing? You said that you replaced the pump and injectors; have you run waste oil through the "new" fuel system, or just straight diesel? If you replace the injectors/pump again, I would try giving it a steady diet of straight diesel for a while; see if things clean up.

Just covering all the bases I can think of, but you're certain you're not dragging brakes or anything like that?

Kinda shooting in the dark but hope this might help a little bit...

 

[Russ]

IF your getting lots of black smoke. you have enough fuel, You need more air, check the turbo for play, and like the Warden said check for boost leaks. air filters.

 

[icanfixall]

Sounds like the precups have carboned up... Bad part is pulling the heads is the only way to know for sure... Then if its not that... Gees, I'm sorry for posting it. Good chance the pump is going away too. WMO is ******* the pumps I don't really care what people say about it. I personally wont run it because I value my pump. Pop testing the injectors might be something that should be done to rule out any problems. The testing needed is more of finding out the status of "thing". If you have burned an oil glaze on the cylinders it will smoke because the coating interferes with the ring seal. You can try hauling heavy making the cylinders and rings hot enough to burn of the glaze but in bad cases its really not possible. It needs to be machined off. A glaze breaker hone or stone will cut it. Another possibility that might help is buy a fiber optic camers at any Home Depot. Then run it down an intake runner into the open intake valve. Maybe it will show the condition of the upper cylinders.

 

[typ4]

We have head shedded this thing to death and I never thought about the precups carboning up!!! That may be some of it. I suspected cam or IP gear being off but it starts up really nice ,at least when I here it. It has me stumped and that is not easy to do. He hasnt run waste thru the new pump I dont think.

 

[Agnem]

What is your timing set to? If you don't know, then your just guessing, and you may be way too advanced. Get a meter on it. As was said, get the injectors tested. When you pull them, look in the bore and see if you have a lot of pre-cup coaking going on.

 

[punkmechanic]

I finished the compression test today and got good numbers on a warm engine. running compression was 200-230 and 5 cycle was 390-410. I noted the glow plug condition of each cylinder and doesnt seem to have too much soot/coaking buildup. I have not replaced the injectors since running wmo but the pump was rebuilt and hasnt seen anything but ulsd from the pump.

I removed the air filter for the ride home (about 5 miles worth of driving a round about way) and it did seem to help but it still isnt what I feel it should be. It pulls better, turbo spools WAY better and as long as I down shift and keep the revs above 2500 it will pull hills unloaded, doesnt feel strong enough to load with a trailer though.

The turbo spins freely with no play, its new from hypermax just over a year ago with a 3 year warranty so I checked it right away.

I pulled the pump cover and set the gear back to the correct timing mark as it was one tooth retarded, that was done 2 months ago while trying to solve this. The timeing is set to 9 degrees advanced with my snap on meter and light. Using the pulse method. Im dont like the way the meter "jumps" when revved to 2k. It doesnt seem to want to hold a steady mark like most gas rigs I have dealt with. I thought it was the pump but it does it with the new pump too so I think the pulse adapter is Too sensitive.

That is all for now unless someone has some other ideas. I think she has enough left in her to get my stuff moved and then Im gonna yank the motor and reseal it while installing new head gaskets and arp head studs. The oil leak from the pan gasket is getting worse slowly and Im sick of oil in my driveway.

hope that answers a few more questions. Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it.


As for what type4 said. It fires great and has good blowby and compression numbers. little to no smoke on startup or below 1500-1800. It starts around 1500 when loaded and gets worse fast. by 2000 if there is any hill it rattles like a power stroke and clouds the sky.

Im stumped, along with a few others.

punk

 

[dyoung14]

the 86 in my sig has always smoke since i got the truck i mean rolled the smoke, always rattled alot more then my dads truck and always had more power, i can cloud the lane of traffic behind me pulling the mountain but mine pulls better than a powerstroke unloaded i can pass everyone comming up the mountain as long as im not loaded down, i just drop it in third and stick my foot into it, it doesnt hit the engine governer in third till the speedo goes to about 68 mph but if i put a good size load behind the truck and hit the same 7% grade then it falls threw the gears fast and the best i can do comming over the top is 35 mph in the floor in 2nd gear aproching 1300 egt and 215 water temp, but since the family problems i havent really drove the truck none, im not sure if it is even mine but thats another story that i made a post about a while back on

 

[punkmechanic]

mine empty is almost like yours loaded.

btw, I hope you get the bs with your stepdad worked out. If not then buy another truck and title it in your name, then do all the work you want and forget the rest.

punk

 

[Black dawg]

if it rattles like a stroke it has too much advance. these pumps cant take away enough timing with a healthy fuel rate. turning up the pump makes the rollers contact the cam at a lower spot making the injector fire sooner. Ive had to modify the face cam to take away more timing and set the base timing farther back to get the rattle right. Ive had my timing clear back to 2deg at 2k with no measurable effect on mpgs.

 

[Diesel JD]

It sounds like what happens when you get a bad turbo or too much fuel and not enough air, but you knew that already. Have you had the fuel injectors pop tested? They should be in the 1800-2000 PSI range and have a nice cone shaped spray pattern with plenty of chatter. No more than 50-100psi difference between the highest and lowest injector. Having a few leakers could explain why your pulse meter is not steady like you think it should be.... I'm sure you have access to the tools and it would be a cheap thing to check.

 

[Black dawg]

forgot to ad that it would help greatly to see what the timing does under loaded conditions. also on your coked up precups my truck runs and sounds like crap if i burn anything other than clear #2 without working it hard for any length of time, but if its loaded it always runs and sounds good.

 

[dyoung14]

mine empty is almost like yours loaded.

btw, I hope you get the bs with your stepdad worked out. If not then buy another truck and title it in your name, then do all the work you want and forget the rest.

punk

if i dont get all the bs worked out i will but another idi, at least i did get my turbo that i got from you thats the main thing, but that truck was the fastest idi non turbo truck i have ever rode or drove, i would love to see some dyno numbers, if he keeps beeing an @ss hole i hope the damn pistons melt comming up the mountain next time he drives it, cause it would push the pyro that i just bought past 1300 if you let it which i usaully didnt, there plenty of these trucks in the world i will find another

 

[punkmechanic]

I will dig around and find what I can that you need. I have been f*%^ed over before and it sucks. I try my damnedest to help everyone I can, so let me know what you need. You asked me awhile back about an early style psd turbo and I, as of yet havent come across one. I get random parts at random times from random things. Send me a want list and I will see what I can get.

as for my truck I think Im gonna get a set of injectors in the next week (side work permiting) and see what happens. I know for sure the air filter was part of the issue. I drove it to my inlaws tonight and she is much happier off the line and pulls harder, still smokes like a train at above 2k and loses power when pulling a grade. downshifting helps, but then the revs are above 2500 and the smoke is rolling. Im gonna try and back the timing down abit while Im building money for the injectors and see what that does.

I havent the slightest idea how to see what the timing is under a load. I would need a digital readout with an rpm input, tdc input, and a number 1 injector fire input. something to ponder I guess, does seem that a piece of equipment such as that would be helpfull to all of us.

thanks

punk

 

[k_williams1982]

When I was over your way and followed you back from typ4's place, the truck smoked but only on the hills and under acceleration. You were blowing more smoke than me, and when I pulled up next to you putting that one hill, I could hear a "rattling" coming out of the stacks and the smoke was "chugging" like a locomotive. Hope this info helps to narrow down the problem.