"BB" or "G" code injectors

[torinoracer29]

My truck is getting horrible fuel mileage and idleing really rough. I am pretty sure that I need to change the injectors as they have 186000 miles on the original ones. I had them rebuilt about 70000 miles ago but never really seemed to be right after that. My question is what is the real differance between the BB and the G code injectors. I have G code now as it is a 94 factory turbo 7.3 idi. Pump has 40000 miles on it fuel return lines and o-rings are new. Will I get more power and better fuel mileage from the BB or should I stay with the factory G code injectors.

 

[Silver Burner]

Lots of threads on this. The factory G code injectors have a different pintle that basically sucks and is designed for fuel economy (I think). The BB code injectors are the ones to have, especially if you can get them from Agnem or Typ4. I'm not sure if Mel(Agnem) is going to be making the Moose Misters anymore, but I'd sure love a Moose pump and Moose Misters from him...

 

[icanfixall]

The "G" codes were an immissions type injector to make the engines run cleaner to pass the smog laws. I have run several sets of new ones and felt they were ok but.... I bought and installed a set of Bb codes from typ4 and wow.. What a differance. It was like adding two more cylinders to my V8 they were that much better than the turbo G codes. I will never again run the G codes. Now reading that you had your rebuilt tells much... The parts to simply rebuild an injector will cost you way more than a new injector so just whats getting replaced when they are rebuilt. Probably nothing so... Wait around till the Delphi Bb codea are available again and buy two sets. Then you will have a spare just in case something happens. Any injector change will require you to retime your ingine to make it correctly timed. Sure it will start and run without timing it but it will never be right till you time it. Pop testing each new injector will tel you whats going on. Then in around 5000 miles the springs have worn in some and the pop pressure has taken a set point. So then is when you pop test them to what they were and reinstall them. No timing will be needed because hopefully you timed the engine when you installed the injectors and now you back to the same pop pressure. So the timing will continue to be the same. As an injector wears down the spring the pop pressure sags. So the injector opens earlier and that advances the timing. Its just the nature of these engines.

 

[gatorman21218]

The "G" codes were an immissions type injector to make the engines run cleaner to pass the smog laws. I have run several sets of new ones and felt they were ok but.... I bought and installed a set of Bb codes from typ4 and wow.. What a differance. It was like adding two more cylinders to my V8 they were that much better than the turbo G codes. I will never again run the G codes. Now reading that you had your rebuilt tells much... The parts to simply rebuild an injector will cost you way more than a new injector so just whats getting replaced when they are rebuilt. Probably nothing so... Wait around till the Delphi Bb codea are available again and buy two sets. Then you will have a spare just in case something happens. Any injector change will require you to retime your ingine to make it correctly timed. Sure it will start and run without timing it but it will never be right till you time it. Pop testing each new injector will tel you whats going on. Then in around 5000 miles the springs have worn in some and the pop pressure has taken a set point. So then is when you pop test them to what they were and reinstall them. No timing will be needed because hopefully you timed the engine when you installed the injectors and now you back to the same pop pressure. So the timing will continue to be the same. As an injector wears down the spring the pop pressure sags. So the injector opens earlier and that advances the timing. Its just the nature of these engines.

As the IP wears it will retard. I think the IP outweighs the injectors in timing vs wear. When I did mine last year it was so retarded it wouldnt start in the cold. I still have not gotten mine timed but there is a night/day difference in the new system

 

[icanfixall]

Gatorman.... Get it timed or rent one of my timing meters. You will be impressed at how well your engine runs with the correct timing. Most feel the timing is best around 9.4 degrees before top dead center. My rental program has really helped out many members here. PM me for more details about this program. When these fuel systems wear out they do so very slowly. Its not untill we replace things like injectors or pumps that we feel the hp come back to a new system level.

 

[George D.]

Allow me to play devils advocate for a bit in 93-94 time frame how did we get diesel emissions down without all the EGR and DOCs and DPFs? Well its simple burn the fuel more eficeantly G codes pop at a higher presure than BBs but BBs flow a smidge more fuel now back in thouse days diesel useualy had much higher cetain rating than it does now so firing the fuel at higher presure was a good thing but these days unless you are in California yes I said California the cetain rating of diesel is generaly 20-30 but in california at some point some one actualy had a thought that made since pertaining to emissions and diesel is required to be atleast 50 cetain wich means it burns more eficiantly.

So my point of this rambeling is basicly yes G codes are and emission driven injector but from a time where that ment increasing eficeantcy. Then I got off on a tangent about the fact that the fuel in most states is garbage the diesel here in Nevada is useualy 30ish but it isn't regulated and my truck loves the higher cetain fuel in California oops I'll stop blabering now

 

[icanfixall]

Your not bablying at all Goerge. My posting about what I felt in the seat of my pants was the G codes were not a good as the BB codes. My hp went up just by the feeling I got... You know the dyno butt-o-meter tells plenty... Then you fuel mileage went up... Those two things really never happen at the same time. I ran G codes for many years. three sets of them.. I really believed the "turbo G codes" were the best thing since thin condoms... My testing proved them to be laqcking in both hp and mileage. I can't say it any better than that. I did my timing and tried several differant setting. One as high as 11.4 I think... I have a viedo of it somewhere. I also have a viedo of the pintles under 10x magnification thru a jewelers loop. The differance is remarkable. Even the springs are differant wire diameter.. The best I can finish with here is buy a set of G and try them out. Seeing and feeling is what made a believer out of me.. I usually wont post something here that I don't know is a fact. Posting something that starts off... I heard this somewhere and it really seems to work.. Why send everyone off looking for something thats snake oil. We drive economical rigs. We pay for the upgrades ourselves... Daddy doesn't listen to us whinning about "My turck isn't fast enough... I need this or that".... That last statement isn't directed to any particular truck or brand. I do read other sites and see what the idea is...

 

[George D.]

I'm not trying to say G codes are better than BBs because I have never run them.

The seat of the pants dyno has way too may variables the biggest being the ears if something sounds faster the seat-o-pants dyno generaly says it is, not trying to say yours necisarily is off some people can ignor the sound.

There is a point to this post I was woundering did you change form relativly new G codes to BBs or did you go to BBs when the Gs were worn out? Also I would love to see the video of the nozels close up because from all I've heard about the diffrences I lean twards Gs but The nozle diffrences I know nothing about except one flows more fuel than the other.

I think I set of BBs cracking at the presure of Gs would be a good set up with a minor adjustment too the pump sad thing is befor I went to Afghanistan I knew what each injector poped at and how to adjust the pump to keep presure up with the added flow of the BBs with the same duration injection event as Gs

With BBs poping lower than Gs and flowing more with a turbo cal pump well this though is unfinished I need to find the specs for the flow rates and crack presures of both injectors and a "map" of the fule flow from a turbo call pump and do some math reread my DB2 engineering document get a set of BBs and set them at a crack preuser of my choosing. Oh and I need to figure out cylinder presures for varrying rpms Alot of work but at that point I'll be able to dial in my fuel injection for optimum power and economy.

 

[icanfixall]

George... BB codes are far better than G codes. The butt dyno tells me this plus... The truck just runs stronger with better fuel mileage. The G codes I took out were new. Maybe 8000 miles on them.This is the viedo I made of the pintle differances.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcSuxjmzEcI&list=UUXOWdff_Gl2acaZwXcYHAKg&index=6&feature=plcp
Heres another viedo showing some other injector information....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKBvOuTBddk&feature=BFa&list=UUXOWdff_Gl2acaZwXcYHAKg&lf=plcp

 

[boxathey]

Good thing i stumbled upon this my 93 factory turbo has 175000 and is all original fuel system. im getting ready to get new injectors and a pump. When you say the bb's are out of stock do you mean backordered from ford ? As far as purchasing a pump. Do you guys recomend going thru ford, or an auto store that comes with a lifetime warranty, or i think ive read here before about some of the members selling there own rebuilt pumps

 

[icanfixall]

I personally would never buy a pump or injectors from Ford, International or any auto parts store that offers a lifetime warranty. I say this because there is better quality and better prices many other places. Two members here sell pump and BB code injectors. That would be Agnem or Typ4. Nobody here has ever gotten a bad deal working with either of them. They are trusted and well respected all over the contry. Actually some members of this site in other countrys around the world have bought from them too... So I guess one could say they are both known world wide for the service they offer. Now please read the forum called... The Hall of Shame above. Listed in there are the names of sellers of pumps and services that have cheated members of this forum. If you choose to deal with them its a chance you take. To be fair, some members have bought from these sellers and got a good deal. So its not all bad but mostly bad. Saving money is what we all try to do. But its a tuff choice sometimes. Figure a set of new Delphi BB codes to be around $250.00. A well built pump is around $350.00. Some members bought several Uhaul pumps for around $175.00 because they got a hell of a deal when Uhaul was selling off much of its inventory. They continue to do so and members send out the alert when it starts up again. Some members have gotten a poor deal buying fromPensacola Pumps and some have gotten good deals. I bought a pump from them and its fine but... Its not going to last like one from Russ or Mel.. I have had two of the famous Moos Pumps. They require a turbo and its strongly recommended to have a intercooler too. I'm just so lazy to install one of my Hypermax intercoolers and thats a shameful thing to admit... In AZ there is an ebay selly that I have delt with called Hecterwithinjectors. Thats how you spell it to find him on ebay. Diesel Lodgic in Florida sells a fine product too. Others may chime in with factual experiances but these are just afew places where you will get a good deal. Both Mel and Russ are stand up guys that will give you much more than you pay for.
They are well known and respected around these parts. PM them for time frames and actuall prices on what you want....

 

[typ4]

Gary, price check please.Pm sent

need to add 100 to almost all those prices.

those are florida prices

 

[OLDBULL8]

George said;

California yes I said California the cetain rating of diesel is generaly 20-30 but in california at some point some one actualy had a thought that made since pertaining to emissions and diesel is required to be atleast 50 cetain wich means it burns more eficiantly.

Don't know where you got the info that diesel is only 20-30 cetane (SC). Federal regulations on cetane is no less than 40, most diesel is 41-42, any cetane rateing over 50 does not make it burn more efficiently. My spelling is correct.

An engineering quote:

Cetane is to diesel fuel what octane is to gasoline. It is a measure of the fuel’s ignition quality and performance. Cetane is actually a hydrocarbon chain, its real name is 1-hexadecane. It is written as C16H34, or a chain of 16 carbon atoms with 34 hydrogen atoms attached. All HC chains are also referred to as paraffins. Cetane is a hydrocarbon molecule that ignites very easily under compression, so it was assigned a rating of 100. All the hydrocarbons in diesel fuel are indexed to cetane as to how well they ignite under compression. There is very little actual cetane in diesel fuel.

All the hydrocarbons in diesel fuel have similar ignition characteristics as cetane. Cetane is abbreviated as CN. A very loose way to think about cetane is if the fuel has a CN of 45, then the fuel will ignite 45% as well as 100% cetane. Diesel engines run just fine with a CN between 45 to 50. There is no performance or emission advantage to keep raising the CN past 50. After that point the fuel’s performance hits a plateau.
Diesel at the pump can be found in two CN ranges: 40-46 for regular diesel, and 45-50 for premium. The minimum CN at the pump is supposed to be 45.

The legal minimum cetane rating for #1 and #2 diesel is 40. Most diesel fuel leaves the refinery with a CN of around 42. The CN rating depends on the crude oil the fuel was refined from. It varies so much from tanker to tanker that a consistent CN rating is almost impossible. Distilling diesel is a crude process compared with making gasoline. Gasoline is more of a manufactured product with tighter standards so the octane rating is very consistent. But, the CN rating at the diesel pump can be anywhere from 42-46. That’s why there is almost never a sticker on a diesel fuel pump for CN.

 

[George D.]

I could be wrong about the minimum cetain but cetain and octain are compleetly difrent and cetain does relate to how eficeaintly the fuel burn just read your post. I've seen first hand evidence that the difrence between the fuel in Nevada with lower cetain of that in california does not burn aswel we had a T444E in the other day that was smokeing due to this wich international at one point even made 2 difrent cps to change the timing for the difrent cetain but one has since been discontinued so a bottle of cetain booster cleard it right up. my truck smokes noticeably more on nevada diesel if I don't run cetain booster.

 

[ecrmike]

icanfixall Can i "buy" a timing set from you? i have 3 trucks and am buying 3 more and like to be "self reliant"