Banks Turbo Install - Turbo and Pressure Chamber Not Lining Up

[MJGenay]

I have a '91 F250 7.3 with a ZF5, I'm in the process of installing a Banks Wastegated Turbo Kit on it.

I purchased the kit from Banks. Except for the continuing frustration where I have found over a dozen missing bolts, nuts, and washers thus far in the Banks provided kit (sealed fastener bag) and a incorrectly specified brass plug for the oil pressure sending unit, I have had no other issues until this point. I'm on step 16/17 in the instruction manual.

I installed the turbo inlet casting, loosely on the exhaust manifold as instructed in step 16. In step 17 I am instructed to temporarily install the turbo itself on the turbo inlet casting, and install the pressure chamber, so as to line them up properly before proceeding. The output for the turbo and the inlet for the pressure chamber are off by around 2 inches horizontally and a decent amount vertically, in fact I can't even get the pressure chamber to sit on the intake properly as it is bumping into the turbo.

The instructions state to adjust the pressure chamber/turbo alignment by loosening/tightening the nuts on the casting/exhaust manifold. My current conundrum is while I can get the turbo inlet casting onto the exhaust manifold bolts and the nuts/washers on the bolts, the casting doesn't line up perfectly with the manifold bolts (maybe I'm expecting too much but it is a little cockeyed). At any rate, the adjustment available from those two fasteners on the manifold is far from enough to get me the movement required so things line up. The current issue seems to be the "foot" on the turbo inlet casting is preventing me from dropping the casting down far enough to put the turbo in the correct position. This foot sits on the engine to transmission adapter plate. I feel as though if I grind the foot off, both bolts on the exhaust manifold will line up better with the turbo casting and I will be able to line up the turbo/pressure chamber much better.

I'm seriously considering grinding the damn foot off but I am unsure of how necessary the foot is as a support feature. In my mind, the two hefty brackets that support the top of the casting, and the two bolts that connect it to the manifold, should be sufficient.

To be clear I don't know the history of this vehicle. For all I know the ZF5 was a swap or the exhaust manifold is after market. I doubt both, especially the aftermarket exhaust manifold as the entire exhaust system appeared to be stock. While working on the truck I realized the reverse sensor harness that plugs into the transmission was missing from the engine bay back to the transmission, I rewired all of that to get the reverse lights working. The missing harness makes me think that the transmission was possibly swapped, or dropped to be rebuilt.

I'm hoping to get this wrapped up this weekend or by Monday at latest. Short of a phone call to Banks on Monday the only way forward I can see is grinding that foot off the turbo casting. Any opinions on that or any similar experiences with a way forwards?


EDIT: To be clear I read the forum posting regarding the "log truck" in the past couple weeks and again this evening. I am 99.9% sure I have this casting sitting in the correct position. Maybe I am incorrect, in which case I will hide in shame. I will be back out there in the morning to fool around with the positioning of this again.

 

[TNBrett]

Post some pictures of what you’re struggling with so we can all better understand and give you better advice.

 

[lotzagoodstuff]

Post some pictures of what you’re struggling with so we can all better understand and give you better advice.

+1 on pics, this group can help a lot more if you show us the "disconnect"

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

I'm unfamiliar with that particular install but if the parts came from Banks they should be accountable for it fitting correctly... IIRC Banks still has pretty good customer service.

Again pics are worth a thousand words! Being off by two inches in an application like this is like being off by a mile... something really isn't right. I feel your pain and wish I could help more.

 

[MJGenay]

The turbo foot with the turbo casting in place, 1st photo.

Second and Third photos are the slightly misaligned bolts on the exhaust manifold with the turbo casting on top of them. Casting needs to drop down and towards driver side to get better alignment on the bolts, the foot on the casting in preventing that.

Fourth photo is one of the brackets that attaches the casting to the engine. The bracket on top is actually supposed to be in front of the bracket below it (according to the diagram in the instructions), so the bolts line up. Casting needs to move down and towards the driver side for the bracket to fit properly. Please ignore the excessive anti seize on the casting... I seem to always get a little overzealous with that, I plan to clean it up.

Fifth is the misaligned turbo and pressure chamber. Casting has to drop down and towards driver side by quite a bit to move the turbo in the required direction.

I had intended to include a photo of the turbo just sitting on the casting but the file is too large to upload. I also intended to include another one of the misalignment but I'm at the limit of the number of photos.

 

[DaveBen]

can you re-clock the intake side of the turbo to match the intake hat?

 

[MJGenay]

can you re-clock the intake side of the turbo to match the intake hat?

As in turn the intake side down? To my knowledge no, there is nothing that I have seen in the manual about that.

 

[Big Bart]

Most turbo’s come apart in two big pieces. They can be attached with bolts a couple pieces of semi circle metal with holes in them.(My boat has this style.). Or a clamp So you can loosen the bolts and the exhaust and intake side of the turbo can both rotate (Clock) individually to how they fit best. The builder/rebuilder puts them in close proximity but usually you have to put them where they fit best.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[MJGenay]

Yeah, I get where you're coming from. The manual had said nothing about that so I wrote it off. I just spent a little while grinding the foot down and refitting and grinding and refitting. If nothing else I seem to have a better, but not perfect, mate on the exhaust manifold/turbo casting. I am worried that as soon as I start the truck up I'll have an exhaust leak there.

After some further examination the exhaust does appear to be stock, or at least the muffler. That is Ford branded. I figure if one of the PO replaced the manifolds with a different style he would've moved down the exhaust system replacing things as well.

I'm going to head back out there and reassemble everything and see if I can get it to fit any better as well as spinning the intake a bit on the turbo.

Thanks for all the help thus far guys, really appreciate it.

 

[Lawrence Koepke]

I installed the Sidewinder kit in my '91 F350 last year. After MANY struggles like yours, I finally ended up grinding the support foot on the casting, trying the fit, then grinding a little more, etc. until I finally got the casting installed. Maybe the '91 year is somewhat different than the year used for the design, I don't know. I had considered loosening the exhaust manifold to see if it would relocate, but abandoned that idea. I had MANY conversations with Banks Engineering techs during my install, and I recommend giving them a call. What is weird is that once I got it on, there was about a half inch between the foot and the top of the bell housing where it is supposed to fit. I have since wondered if I just never found the perfect angle to get the casting there, but I tried many times over several days before I resorted to the grinding.

Once I got the casting in place, I "rebuilt" the foot (as I ended up grinding too much) by putting an old nut under it, wrapping a dam around the affair, and filling it with epoxy (JB Weld). I have not had any problems since.

BTW, since you don't have the turbo in, be forewarned that the removal of the factory sound proofing is going to increase the noise in the cab substantially. I ended up pulling the turbo, and, using paper patterns I created, added soundproofing with layers of 1) fiberglass mat, 2) sheet lead (roofing supply, 0.040" thk),3) fiberglass mat,and 4) aluminum tape layers. I used pieces of aluminum weatherstripping stock to hold the fiberglass and lead to the top of the firewall tunnel. The whole process was tedious, but well worth it. My truck is now quieter inside the cab than when it was new... with the HVAC fan on inside, I can barely hear that old diesel, and most of what I hear is the exhaust from the low restriction system that comes in the kit.

I am SO happy I made the conversion. What was a GOOD truck is now a GREAT truck.

Regarding the turbo, you will probably need to loosen the clamp and rotate the output side a bit to best align it with the compression chamber ("top hat"). The will likely not line up, which is why Banks supplies the short connecting hose with the bulge in the middle. I found that some leverage with a pipe in the outlet allowed me to rotate the output relative to the input fairly easily without needing to loosen the clamp much.

BTW, do make sure you have made enough room for the down tube that gets installed later, as it installs parallel to that casting. I used a 6' pencil bar to bend the bottom of the firewall, even after I had done the recommended cutting and bending, and just barely managed to eventually get the downtube in. No matter how you do it, all this stuff is a tight fit!

BTW, I later designed an Intercooler to keep the EGT down towing my 5th wheel, all parts form www.frozenboost.com, as I could not find a kit anywhere.

Good luck!

 

[MJGenay]

I installed the Sidewinder kit in my '91 F350 last year. After MANY struggles like yours, I finally ended up grinding the support foot on the casting, trying the fit, then grinding a little more, etc. until I finally got the casting installed. Maybe the '91 year is somewhat different than the year used for the design, I don't know. I had considered loosening the exhaust manifold to see if it would relocate, but abandoned that idea. I had MANY conversations with Banks Engineering techs during my install, and I recommend giving them a call. What is weird is that once I got it on, there was about a half inch between the foot and the top of the bell housing where it is supposed to fit. I have since wondered if I just never found the perfect angle to get the casting there, but I tried many times over several days before I resorted to the grinding.

Once I got the casting in place, I "rebuilt" the foot (as I ended up grinding too much) by putting an old nut under it, wrapping a dam around the affair, and filling it with epoxy (JB Weld). I have not had any problems since.

BTW, since you don't have the turbo in, be forewarned that the removal of the factory sound proofing is going to increase the noise in the cab substantially. I ended up pulling the turbo, and, using paper patterns I created, added soundproofing with layers of 1) fiberglass mat, 2) sheet lead (roofing supply, 0.040" thk),3) fiberglass mat,and 4) aluminum tape layers. I used pieces of aluminum weatherstripping stock to hold the fiberglass and lead to the top of the firewall tunnel. The whole process was tedious, but well worth it. My truck is now quieter inside the cab than when it was new... with the HVAC fan on inside, I can barely hear that old diesel, and most of what I hear is the exhaust from the low restriction system that comes in the kit.

I am SO happy I made the conversion. What was a GOOD truck is now a GREAT truck.

Regarding the turbo, you will probably need to loosen the clamp and rotate the output side a bit to best align it with the compression chamber ("top hat"). The will likely not line up, which is why Banks supplies the short connecting hose with the bulge in the middle. I found that some leverage with a pipe in the outlet allowed me to rotate the output relative to the input fairly easily without needing to loosen the clamp much.

BTW, do make sure you have made enough room for the down tube that gets installed later, as it installs parallel to that casting. I used a 6' pencil bar to bend the bottom of the firewall, even after I had done the recommended cutting and bending, and just barely managed to eventually get the downtube in. No matter how you do it, all this stuff is a tight fit!

BTW, I later designed an Intercooler to keep the EGT down towing my 5th wheel, all parts form www.frozenboost.com, as I could not find a kit anywhere.

Good luck!

Thanks for the really detailed reply!
So yes, after much hand wringing I decided to grind that foot off and it made a huge difference, I was able to move the pipe almost exactly where I need it. I also loosened the bolt and spun the intake down a hair so I could get things to line up. So far so good. Only issue I've found is the "Turbine Inlet Casting Brace - Side" doesn't line up, its off by about an 1/8th inch. I'd really like to get that installed too for peace of mind so I'll keep fooling with it.

Thanks for the advice regarding the firewall as well. Getting the casting in wasn't too much of an issue which makes me think the reason for all of the required firewall modification is due to that down pipe.

While I'd like to get this wrapped up tonight I recently realized I am missing 2 of the 4 "circle lock" lock washers that I was supposed to get, among many other things. That means I'll be pushed until tomorrow morning when the hardware store opens up...

 

[Lawrence Koepke]

Which tranny? I have the E4OD, custom built for me at Geezers Garage in Oregon, and the brace lined up perfectly.
Regarding the firewall "modification", IMHO, they have us cut much more than needed out, but, yes, the downpipe needs all the clearance possible, but the driver's side didn't need so much removed in my case. You do need it out of the way for the turbo, as the back gets quite close to the firewall. I'm happy I followed directions on it though, because my custom soundproofing is much more effective than the factory's soundproofing. But, then again, I also have soundproofed the cab with Dynamat everywhere I could get it except the roof
Did you get the entire kit, with the exhaust system? I had to buy an exhaust hanger tool to get my old exhaust out, but I used a vice (where I couldn't get the tool in place) to force the hangers out of the rubber bushings. Best hint on that job is Silicone spray inside the bushings to help the hangers get through. That job was a real PITA, as those old rubber bushings aren't particularly flexible after 30 years.
I'm surprised that you are missing parts, my kit from Banks was missing nothing. When did you buy it (they told me they were near to closing that product down due to lack of demand for these old trucks)?

 

[IDIBRONCO]

(they told me they were near to closing that product down due to lack of demand for these old trucks)?

That's sad to see, but I can understand it at the same time. I'm happy that they kept it going this long.

 

[MJGenay]

Which tranny? I have the E4OD, custom built for me at Geezers Garage in Oregon, and the brace lined up perfectly.
Regarding the firewall "modification", IMHO, they have us cut much more than needed out, but, yes, the downpipe needs all the clearance possible, but the driver's side didn't need so much removed in my case. You do need it out of the way for the turbo, as the back gets quite close to the firewall. I'm happy I followed directions on it though, because my custom soundproofing is much more effective than the factory's soundproofing. But, then again, I also have soundproofed the cab with Dynamat everywhere I could get it except the roof
Did you get the entire kit, with the exhaust system? I had to buy an exhaust hanger tool to get my old exhaust out, but I used a vice (where I couldn't get the tool in place) to force the hangers out of the rubber bushings. Best hint on that job is Silicone spray inside the bushings to help the hangers get through. That job was a real PITA, as those old rubber bushings aren't particularly flexible after 30 years.
I'm surprised that you are missing parts, my kit from Banks was missing nothing. When did you buy it (they told me they were near to closing that product down due to lack of demand for these old trucks)?

ZF5. The brace on the tranny lined up perfectly. Its the brace that attaches to the glow plug controller/passenger side intake manifold that didn't line up on the turbo casting.

Regarding the firewall I ripped that whole acoustic shield out like two weeks ago as it was crumbling/hanging down.

I drove this guy 700 miles when I picked it up without a passenger door interior panel and the driverside window stuck open two inches... after that everything seems quiet lol.

I tried PB Blaster and silicone, got a couple that way, but the muffler ones ended up being a real bear. I just sawzalled them off and popped them through.


I am extremely surprised about the missing parts as well. I did not expect this from Banks and I honestly couldn't find a bad review, I'm assuming it must just be a fluke, albeit a very frustrating one.

 

[MJGenay]

That's sad to see, but I can understand it at the same time. I'm happy that they kept it going this long.

I'm not so sure they are actually shutting this down. If anything I think it may be a sales pitch. I ordered mine at the end of January as they were supposed to go up in the price beginning of February. That price increase didn't happen and now it appears the "price increase" may be the end of March