Bad new from Blackstone Laboratories...

[icanfixall]

One more thought. I replaced the return line kit and copper injector seals a while back. When I did this, I noticed that 5-6 the injectors were wet and one had a really bad rust spot on the body. At the time I didn't know this could be an issue, but I now know that this may be the symptoms of leaking injectors, correct?

So if I assume there's 5-6 injectors leaking, then that could be a cause of possibly two problems. One being that the rings are being washed out and cylinders are wearing excessively. The second is I could be contaminating the oil with my WMO blend at a higher rate because of the amount of fuel being dumped. Do either of these sound likely?

This is a real possibility too. Bad injectors will wash down a cylinder easily. Stop burning the wmo and chnage the oil. Run diesel and retest the oil at 3000 miles...

 

[motoshop]

This is a real possibility too. Bad injectors will wash down a cylinder easily. Stop burning the wmo and chnage the oil. Run diesel and retest the oil at 3000 miles...

Will do tomorrow, but where is the coolant coming from?

 

[Shadetreemechanic]

I bet the coolant is coming from the oil cooler. I had a blackstone analysis that lookes similar once. I replaced the oil cooler rings and stopped burning lucas fuel additive. The lead in my report was coming from the lucas and the cooler rings fixed the antifreeze.
As other have said, oil analysis is to discern trends. You don't need to pull the motor on one bad report.
I wouldn't be suprised if your elevated wear numbers aren't coming from the wvo.
BTW, try changing your oil more often. 6K interval is too long judging from your viscosity numbers.

 

[motoshop]

I bet the coolant is coming from the oil cooler. I had a blackstone analysis that lookes similar once. I replaced the oil cooler rings and stopped burning lucas fuel additive. The lead in my report was coming from the lucas and the cooler rings fixed the antifreeze.
As other have said, oil analysis is to discern trends. You don't need to pull the motor on one bad report.
I wouldn't be suprised if your elevated wear numbers aren't coming from the wvo.
BTW, try changing your oil more often. 6K interval is too long judging from your viscosity numbers.

Yeah I keep getting the same resolution which is "just drive it and check it again next oil change". I will be rebuilding the oil cooler though no matter what, it just seems like the next logical thing to do whether its the problem or not. I dont know why it says 6k on the readout though, I went 5k which I read somewhere was ok. I think they may have entered that wrong on the form, but either way, I'm going to go back to my normal 3k intervals for now and may step it up to 5k again if I get some good reports back.

BTW, I called the recommended diesel mechanic here in Las Vegas to pick his brain. He said it would be $12k-$13K to replace my motor with a reman motor. I think I might get another estimate...

 

[icanfixall]

$12,000.00 to $13,000.00 for an idi engine .......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psG3SAQRzHM

 

[Diesel JD]

He's crazy. Even if it took him 24 hrs of labor instead of the 12 I guessed, at 100 an hour that is 2400+ 5000 for a reman turbo long block+ $200 for incidentals= $7600. These are high side estimates for labor and engines. Better numbers: Sleeve all 8 at a highly recommended machine shop (150*8)=$1200, new set of Mahle pistons approx 500, new rings bearings and incidentals $300(=$2000)+ ARP stud kit 700 max=2700+ labor for assembly if you can't do yourself (unknown...any guesses?) but still less than 5 grand drop in for sure. Then figure 16 hours at $80 per hour to remove and reinstall=1280. Figure a couple hundred more for new fluids. I think you could get a really nice upgraded engine for $6000 or less especially if you can do the labor. These things are a lot of labor and mechanics generally charge in the $70-125/hr range depending on where you are. I'm not sure if I can believe that the oil cooler would cause much antifreeze to be leaking in, the reason? The cooling system is pressurized to about 13-16psi, and the oil system is pressurized to about 30-60 psi hot at 2000+ rpm and on a cold start. However the coolant could leak in at hot idle where the oil pressure may only be around 10 psi on a reasonably decent engine. I do know that my led started dropping after I changed my leaky water pump back in 2006. I think it was dying a slow death and I didn't know it. My wear metals are still nothing to brag about, but after all these thousands of miles I obviously didn't need to panic about the bad oil report.

 

[idiabuse]

Funny how blackstone mentioned nothing about the way high viscosity. 17.65! that is a 50 weight oil!
they did mention the coolant was not excessive and the fact this is your only used oil analysis.
Trending oil analysis is much easier to make decisions and adjustments rather from one UOA.
The wear metals are high but that could simply mean the PO never changed his oil and the one oil change you have an analysis on still has residual oil and wear metal showing up.
I would monitor your coolant, add some stop leak, change the oil again and take another sample at 5000 miles, If the wear metals is lower then you just have a dirty engine and it takes time to clean it up.

I would think the engine has alot of PO neglect and the UOA shows thickened oil, I say another 10,000 miles and 2 more oil samples are in order to make a better assement of the condition of the engine.

Another way to get more info is to cut open the oil filter and inspect the pleats for metal, or the next oil sample ask for a particle count, that will help find the true condition of the engine.

Good call Taking a UOA and asking questions!


Javier

 

[Agnem]

Here is what I would do.

Stop all WMO and run only #2 for your test
Change your oil every 2K and send in for analysis
Do a compression test of all cylinders
Presurize each cylinder with shop and and watch the coolant for bubbles.
Then over the course of the next 8 days....
Presurize cylinder #1 with shop air (to force the piston to BDC of the compression stroke, then remove shop air and presurize cooling system to 21 pounds. In the morning, turn the engine over to see if any coolant comes out of your #1 glow plug hole. Repeat for each cylinder.

 

[motoshop]

Update

Just had my injectors pop tested...every one failed miserably. They looked like someone turned on a faucet. Combine that with the fact that I'm running WMO and you'll see where this is going.

I called Blackstone this morning and they said the analysis was really odd because they NEVER see the calcium as high as it was which was throwing my TBN off. He said the TBN was higher than they see on brand new oil. He also said the wear metals are normally indicative of a motor thats literally ready to let loose. I explained to him my fuel situation and we both agree that its most likely the excessive WMO getting past my rings and throwing the UOA off.

I might be wrong, but this motor runs fantastic and last week alone I put 750+ miles on it running out of town and back. I drive it everyday, and as far as I'm concerned, it runs great. So I'm thinking there's nothing wrong with the internals and its the injectors that were bad and contaminating the crankcase oil.

So my plan now is to change the oil and filter, replace the injectors, run #2 and drive for 1-2K. Blackstone then said to send in another oil sample and see what the results are. I'm hoping though nothing else was damaged because of the injectors or WMO.

I still have two concerns though. The first being where the AF is coming from. This may be the from the WMO, but I HIGHLY doubt it considering my source. The second is how high the metals content was of the report. If we assume that the injectors and WMO was the culprit, it makes me wonder how well I'm actually filtering my WMO. I've only been running it for 3 weeks and its apparently has enough metals left in it to raise some concerns in the UOA. I will be sending out a sample of my WMO to Blackstone for analysis of metals and AF, so hopefully this will answer some questions...

 

[motoshop]

One more question, does anyone have a way to get a hold of Russ outside of the sites PM's? I'd like to see how soon he can have me a set of injectors since this is my daily driver. Thanks again guys!

Ryan

 

[h2odrx]

Just had my injectors pop tested...every one failed miserably. They looked like someone turned on a faucet. Combine that with the fact that I'm running WMO and you'll see where this is going.

I called Blackstone this morning and they said the analysis was really odd because they NEVER see the calcium as high as it was which was throwing my TBN off. He said the TBN was higher than they see on brand new oil. He also said the wear metals are normally indicative of a motor thats literally ready to let loose. I explained to him my fuel situation and we both agree that its most likely the excessive WMO getting past my rings and throwing the UOA off.

I might be wrong, but this motor runs fantastic and last week alone I put 750+ miles on it running out of town and back. I drive it everyday, and as far as I'm concerned, it runs great. So I'm thinking there's nothing wrong with the internals and its the injectors that were bad and contaminating the crankcase oil.

So my plan now is to change the oil and filter, replace the injectors, run #2 and drive for 1-2K. Blackstone then said to send in another oil sample and see what the results are. I'm hoping though nothing else was damaged because of the injectors or WMO.

I still have two concerns though. The first being where the AF is coming from. This may be the from the WMO, but I HIGHLY doubt it considering my source. The second is how high the metals content was of the report. If we assume that the injectors and WMO was the culprit, it makes me wonder how well I'm actually filtering my WMO. I've only been running it for 3 weeks and its apparently has enough metals left in it to raise some concerns in the UOA. I will be sending out a sample of my WMO to Blackstone for analysis of metals and AF, so hopefully this will answer some questions...

are you going to test this oil too? I bet that will help you tell whether or not you got water problems? what % are you running?

 

[Diesel JD]

You'll probably have to wait toward the weekend for Russ. He works on the road, fortunately he's not that far from you as the mail goes. His product is good and worth the wait though from what I hear. That having been said I would not be running this engine with injectors that are that bad. Washing down the rings with diesel or good bio won't be as damaging as WMO but still not a good idea for it's health. I do understand you have to do what you have to do though.

 

[idiabuse]

Just had my injectors pop tested...every one failed miserably. They looked like someone turned on a faucet. Combine that with the fact that I'm running WMO and you'll see where this is going.

I called Blackstone this morning and they said the analysis was really odd because they NEVER see the calcium as high as it was which was throwing my TBN off. He said the TBN was higher than they see on brand new oil. He also said the wear metals are normally indicative of a motor thats literally ready to let loose. I explained to him my fuel situation and we both agree that its most likely the excessive WMO getting past my rings and throwing the UOA off.

I might be wrong, but this motor runs fantastic and last week alone I put 750+ miles on it running out of town and back. I drive it everyday, and as far as I'm concerned, it runs great. So I'm thinking there's nothing wrong with the internals and its the injectors that were bad and contaminating the crankcase oil.

So my plan now is to change the oil and filter, replace the injectors, run #2 and drive for 1-2K. Blackstone then said to send in another oil sample and see what the results are. I'm hoping though nothing else was damaged because of the injectors or WMO.

I still have two concerns though. The first being where the AF is coming from. This may be the from the WMO, but I HIGHLY doubt it considering my source. The second is how high the metals content was of the report. If we assume that the injectors and WMO was the culprit, it makes me wonder how well I'm actually filtering my WMO. I've only been running it for 3 weeks and its apparently has enough metals left in it to raise some concerns in the UOA. I will be sending out a sample of my WMO to Blackstone for analysis of metals and AF, so hopefully this will answer some questions...

The importance of a fuel’s viscosity is the effect it has on pumps and influence on injector systems spray
pattern. High viscosity will cause poor atomization, and high spray jet penetration. The jet tends to be a
solid stream. The fuel spray may impinge upon the cylinder walls, washing away the lube oil film and
causing dilution of the crankcase oil. Low viscosity fuel does not penetrate far enough in the combustion
chamber. Low viscosity leads to excessive leakage past the injection pump plunger. In either case the
results are poor combustion, loss of power, inaccurate metering and increased wear in both the fuel
system and engine

 

[RLDSL]

Personally, I'd be sending a sample to a different lab. There's been a bit of speculation lately that blackstone seems to have a habit of majically always finding *something* to keep you coming back, but never anything definitive. With no actual coolant loss going on here, my stink-o-meter is going off big time, yes, anything is possible, but if you haven't been loosing any coolant, where the heck is all this coolant coming from? Is it possible the container or the spot you were sampling from were contaminated with glycols?

You wouldn't go and get a heart transplant without an independent second and third opinion, why the heck would you give one to your truck?

 

[hesutton]

Funny how blackstone mentioned nothing about the way high viscosity. 17.65! that is a 50 weight oil!
they did mention the coolant was not excessive and the fact this is your only used oil analysis.
Trending oil analysis is much easier to make decisions and adjustments rather from one UOA.
The wear metals are high but that could simply mean the PO never changed his oil and the one oil change you have an analysis on still has residual oil and wear metal showing up.
I would monitor your coolant, add some stop leak, change the oil again and take another sample at 5000 miles, If the wear metals is lower then you just have a dirty engine and it takes time to clean it up.

I would think the engine has alot of PO neglect and the UOA shows thickened oil, I say another 10,000 miles and 2 more oil samples are in order to make a better assement of the condition of the engine.

Another way to get more info is to cut open the oil filter and inspect the pleats for metal, or the next oil sample ask for a particle count, that will help find the true condition of the engine.

Good call Taking a UOA and asking questions!


Javier

X 2! Good advice. Something I was going to say but, you beat me to it. Trend the reports and see what happens. I had similar coolant contamination on my crew cab with a head gasket starting to head south. Compression on that cylinder was slightly lower as well (400 vs 420-450 for the rest).

Heath