86 f250 6.9 rebuild/refresh advice and questions

Knuckledragger

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Have not heard anything about using synthetic in Diesels, but would not rule them out after break in. Do research before committing, I have not seen full synthetic labeled for diesel use, but I rarely buy oil. The one best reason to use synthetic oil (in cars, at least) is that it keeps seals fresh for a good long time.
 

79jasper

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Oops. I meant synthetic is fine after break in. But as parts need to wear during break in (think of rings and walls) synthetic can make it take way longer.
They do have diesel synthetics. I know of mobile 1, amsoil, schaeffers, Rotella, a few others.
I would definitely run synthetic.

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PwrSmoke

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Some advocate (me included) using a lighter oil for break in, the reasoning behind that being flow. That would be 10W30 in our case. Flow's important for several reasons. You want good flow at first start and good flow thru the first warmup so as to flush out contaminants (there is a lot of dirt in the engine after a rebuild) as well as flushing out break in contaminants for those critical first few hundred miles. Also, because you probably aren't going to put those first few hundred breaking miles all at once (500 is a good number BTW, unless you have a bypass oil filtration added, in which case you can run a normal interval) you don't want to have the filter bypass... you want ALL the oil running thru the filter. On cold/cool starts or hard running, cool, thick oil can cause the bypass valve to open and allow unfiltered oil to bypass the filter. Break in oil is not the time you want that to happen because that's when the oil is likely to be full of junk. The important times are starts, specifically cold starts. The optimal thing is to put as many of those break in miles in as big a chunks as possible on a warmed up engine... in other words, it's better to break it in in 100 mile increments than 10 mile increments because that eliminates 9, cold, dry starts. It's not always possible or practical to do that but bear it in mind. If you eliminate many cold start aspects and can do the break in in big chunks, it reduces or eliminates the need for the lighter oil... assuming you want to run 15W40.... because the oil is warm and flowing good. Some of us use 10W30 all the time. ( : < )

Since I "retired" from being a full-time tech, where you were on the clock, I now take some extra steps at first start most of my bosses wouldn't allow.

1) Don't fill the cooling system until right before first start and then use hot tap water. I never fill the engine with coolant the first time because there is junk in the water jacket and elsewhere so running water for the first run and maybe the first run around the block (or in my case the first hundred miles) will flush that stuff loose and you can dump it. Also, if you end up with a little leak, it's a lot easier to deal with a little water leaking than expensive coolant. There is often some oil in the water jacket so a mild flushing compound might be in order too.

2) I also warm the oil by putting the jugs in a bucket of hot tap water, warming up the water frequently to get the oil at least as hot as the tap water (takes 30 minutes and about three refills of hot water). That helps the oil flow better for the first start.

3) If the oil and coolant or water are already in, plug in the block heater for a few hours and maybe even let a heater blow on the oil pan (a safe heater!). It was cool out when I was breaking my truck in so I plugged it in every time for the first few hundred miles. There is some heat transfer from the water jacket to the oil (I tested it at 45F ambient and with the truck plugged in for two hours, oil temp in the pan rose 30 degrees) and on top of that the oil cooler also warms the oil so the hotter the coolant at start up the faster the oil will warm up.

As to a specific oil, I like a break in oil with high ZDDP and even a little moly. Diesel oil is higher in ZDDP than gassers, but they still reduced the levels for the CJ-4 oils and changed the types of ZDDP used. I am not normally a fan of oil additives, but break-in is a good time for a can of a ZDDP additive. ONE can. Also, if you choose an oil with lots of moly (molybdenumdisulfide) it's very complementary to ZDDP. ZDDP needs some heat to start working where moly works well when cold and, if anything, starts to back off with more heat. The Delo, Delvac and Lubrigard are three that come to mind, the Delo has 92 ppm/ml and the others about equal levels at ~50 ppm/ml. There are many ZDDP additives and I don't have a specific recommendation. I can tell you what I used, Rislone Engine Oil Supplement with Zinc Treatment. Here is the data sheet <http://rislone.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/4405-Tech-Sheet.pdf>. What I liked is that a) it was everywhere, b) it was less expensive c) it had a little less ZDDP than some of the more expensive stuff, but just enough to bolster the oil, d) it didn't change the viscosity of the oil (like STP or motor honey).

PS- Synthetics are OK for break in, most OEs put syns in for first fill these days, but my objection is cost. Who wants do dump $10/quart oil in 500 miles? An exception would be if you have a bypass system with a fine filter. I have nearly 8K miles on my break in oil. I have tested it twice and with a 99.9% @ 20 um primary filter (Fram Ultra) and a 3um bypass filter, the oil at 6K miles had fewer contaminate in it than the new oil (yes I tested the new oil). Most synthetics these days are Group III, which are less "slippery" than the Group IV and V oils we used to call synthetic. I use the term "slippery" to save a long explanation. Many conventional oils are Group IIA base oils, which are really only a few steps below Group III and, frankly, if you were worried about a Group III for break in, a Group IIA is almost as much to "worry" about. Plenty of people break in engines on stuff like Amsoil and the other boutique oils. The main issue used to be for ring seating but today's rings and bore finishes (if properly done) don't have a problem breaking in on a syn. Again, it comes down to dumping #10/qt oil in 500 miles!

Also, now is the time to install the most efficient oil filter that you can afford. Not only will the oil be full of junk from the rebuild, it will generate more junk as it breaks in. The more you catch, the better and the high end filters are more efficient, such as (in no particular order) the Mobil 1, Fram Ultra, Amsoil, Napa Platinum, Purolater Synthetic, and... uhhh I'm drawing blank on the others. Not all the filter manufacturers offer a high efficiency filter in either FL784 or FL1995 equivalents (easier to find a hi-efficiency filter in an FL1995 equiv.). No matter what, at least buy the FL1995 equivalent filter, whatever brand. It's a little more efficient than the FL784 but most importantly in this case, it has about twice the filter area. That's important to good oil flow, especially at first start and cold starts.... less likely to open the bypass valve.
 
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stealth13777

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Went to buy 10W30 oil. So my issue is, 15W40 regular oil or 10W30 synthetic blend seem to be my choices. Or full synthetic. I may just do a 15W40 Delo fill with additive. And stick to warm days at first. Absolutely doing the high end filter! Will also be filling with distilled water to start with, really like that idea. Thanks again guys.

Pic as of yesterday; worked some today too. Lots of little things, like gauges and whatnot, that have to be finished up before I start it.
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The fuel filter and stand were supposed to be international grey like the engine originally. I didn't match the color well... Not worth it to me to redo, it'll darken with time.


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PwrSmoke

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Went to buy 10W30 oil. So my issue is, 15W40 regular oil or 10W30 synthetic blend seem to be my choices. Or full synthetic. I may just do a 15W40 Delo fill with additive. And stick to warm days at first. Absolutely doing the high end filter! Will also be filling with distilled water to start with, really like that idea. Thanks again guys.


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FWIW, I used Rotella 10W30 T5 for break in with the additive. It's a syn blend and the "syn" is Group III. It's a pretty pretty robust oil. But no worriers on the Delo either... it's a mighty fine oil! And it has Moly, which the T5 does not. There is a Delo 10W30 too, but it's hard to find. Not sure what the temps are running in Jacksonville, but overall that climate gives you more leeway to run the 15W40. If your block heater is still operational, give it two hours before you start and that's golden. Once you are past the first coupla hundred miles, you are pretty much over the worst of it. First 100 miles, really, but 500 gives it a chance to really finish the majority of the break in.
 

stealth13777

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FWIW, I used Rotella 10W30 T5 for break in with the additive. It's a syn blend and the "syn" is Group III. It's a pretty pretty robust oil. But no worriers on the Delo either... it's a mighty fine oil! And it has Moly, which the T5 does not. There is a Delo 10W30 too, but it's hard to find. Not sure what the temps are running in Jacksonville, but overall that climate gives you more leeway to run the 15W40. If your block heater is still operational, give it two hours before you start and that's golden. Once you are past the first coupla hundred miles, you are pretty much over the worst of it. First 100 miles, really, but 500 gives it a chance to really finish the majority of the break in.

It would be interesting to see if the block heater still works. Kinda scared to plug it in haha...
 

whitehorse

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Wished I seen this post sooner.... I could have asked the BG guy today at work about using the moa in a diesel....get this this thing together already....:D
 

PwrSmoke

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Wished I seen this post sooner.... I could have asked the BG guy today at work about using the moa in a diesel....get this this thing together already....:D

Not sure MOA would be appropriate for break in... at least the MOA I used to be familiar with. In the '80s and '90s, it has a pretty strong dose of an anti-friction additive that might be counter productive to break in. I say that without having seen a recent Data Sheet on it.
 

stealth13777

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I see you got new rocker arms. Did NAPA come through for you on them?

They did! I don't remember the exact price anymore (I stopped keeping track of this truck cause it wasn't fun to look at the total anymore), but it came out pretty close to the original auto zone link!

Well, didn't quite start it today. But it does have oil in it now! Can't touch it again till Tuesday (base shop is closed). If I could work late and/or Sunday-Monday this thing woulda been done a month ago... (vs the 9-5 tues-sat this place is open). Still having the shop is nice.

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stealth13777

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another military member?

Nice catch, and yeah, Navy as well. Since I let it slip, would you believe they consider an engine hoist a crane? The shop isn't supposed to have one. The inspectors got all over the shop about how I got my engine out. Their response: 'ask him, he pays for the bay and does the work, not us. Maybe he chained it to the car lift?' Lol. Not supposed to paint there either. Environment and all that I guess. I wonder if they could even get permission to build these diy shops if the base didn't already have em. At another base you couldn't do suspension work on a lift cause a guy was pulling on something and rocked the car right off the lift... What else is the frame lift for?? That said, these shops have immense value for someone like me who doesn't have their own workspace. Never could have done this work without it.


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IDIoit

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thank you for your service.
boy how times have changed!
i served from 95-99, we were able to do anything there!(port hueneme CA)
me and a shipwreck built a 72 datsun, we stuffed a 350 and a power glide in it.
i also did a engine swap on a 66 coupe de ville.
******* brass always messing up an enlisted's fun!
trucks looking amazing tho!
 

PwrSmoke

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Nice catch, and yeah, Navy as well. Since I let it slip, would you believe they consider an engine hoist a crane? The shop isn't supposed to have one. The inspectors got all over the shop about how I got my engine out. Their response: 'ask him, he pays for the bay and does the work, not us. Maybe he chained it to the car lift?' Lol. Not supposed to paint there either. Environment and all that I guess. I wonder if they could even get permission to build these diy shops if the base didn't already have em. At another base you couldn't do suspension work on a lift cause a guy was pulling on something and rocked the car right off the lift... What else is the frame lift for?? That said, these shops have immense value for someone like me who doesn't have their own workspace. Never could have done this work without it.


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Yeah, I was Army in the early '70s (an Army sailor believe it or not) and the post where I was stationed had a great auto shop where I did a lot of work. Any and all kinds of work, though they were a bit short of certain special tools.
 
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