'86 6.9 NA vs. '93 6.5 TD

[TBigLug]

I know, this is the 6.9 section so opinions might be a little biased but I'm gonna post it over in the 6.5 section as well (for both tiose guys lol) and balance the input.

So, had an interesting proposal laid out to me the other day by a buddy of mine. He proposed trading me trucks. Here's the basic stats of the two laid out side by side.

Mine: 1986 Ford F-250 XL, 4x2, 6.9 (stock), C6, 3.55:1 ratio, extended cab, long box, 150,000 miles, overall in good shape.

His: 1993 Chevy C2500, 4x2, 6.5, 4L80E, 3.73:1 ratio, extended cab, long box, 178,000 miles, seems to be in good shape.

So, side by side, which motor makes the better puller? Near as I can tell (according to the Wiki), my motor should make about 170 hp and 315 ft/lb and his should make about 180-215 hp and 340-440 ft/lb. If compared on the low end they're about the same but there's a big gap in low-high numbers for the 6.5. Everyone knows I'm a Chevy guy but I love the durability of a truck I've already put 6,000 miles on so I know what I've got.

What's you guys' thoughts? Is it worth it to swap out for a decade 'ish newer truck or not?

 

[Alex S]

out of the box the chevy is the better puller but yours has an edge on reliability. the 4l80E is a kick ass auto, hard to brake and was based on the TH 400

The 6.5 has some reliability problems but they can be easily addressed. All thou laity there have been a few broken cranks and blown head gaskets on the IH 6.9/7.3 so i guess it just what flavor you like the best

 

[Diesel_brad]

The 6.5 is a good engine. And the 93 is either the last year for all mechanically controled or the second to the last year. Which is good . The elecronic ones suck

 

[88beast]

6.5s suck for parts they have 3 diff alts and you could only use on eand most parts houses only carry one
the 6.9 is more reialable
but in youre case id do it if all checks out
the 6.5 is a good motor and makes good power with plenty of mods
but id make sure his truck is up to ***** cause theres got to be a reason for the trade correct?

 

[crashnzuk]

Another upside to the chevy is the overdrive. I too think that is the last year of the mechanical engine, which I hear is a good thing.
Travis..

 

[TBigLug]

Correct, 1993 is the last year for the mechanical. That's the only reason I would even consider it. As far as the "why", it's pretty basic. He's a Ford guy driving a Chevy and I'm a Chevy guy driving an International! We both go through trucks faster than we go through shoes.

 

[GOOSE]

I'm a Ford guy but alot of what you want in a truck is personal preferance. I would suggest that you take note of the overall tightness of the body and interior. Which doors shut nicer? Which one has less rust? Less road noise?

Has the Ford fared well for being 7 years older?

The 4L80E is a very nice trans, I agree. I would note it is about 2 to 3 times more expensive to rebuild than the C6. Even Chevy guys have to respect the C6, it's pretty darn tough. The 6.9 you have is making near the power of the 6.5 without the turbo. One less thing to go wrong and an opportunity to add a turbo to the 6.9 and spank the 6.5. I would guess that the cruising rpm's won't be too far off but the Chevy would get the nod for empty highway cruising.

I will guess the Chevy is 300-500lbs lighter than the Ford and feels like a hot rod in comparison. It brakes as well or better on account of the light weight. Put 4,000 lbs in the bed and compare again. The Chevy will be squatting more and leave you with a white kunckled feeling compared to the Ford. Similar results will be had with towing also.
Every Chevy I have ever owned has been very good to me, like they had something to prove. I just think Ford makes a better work truck and the 6.2/6.5 is the worst sounding diesel I have ever heard.

Good luck with your decision.

Food for thought.
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39808

 

[GOOSE]

Any conclusions?

 

[david85]

I've driven both since my Dad has a 1993 mechanical 6.5 turbo. Its not a bad engine and stock for stock will out pull the 6.9, but the 6.9 has more bottom end. Put 5-7 PSI of boost into the 6.9 and it will tear the 6.5 a new one. Fuel economy doesn't seem to be that great though and his truck seems to hit a ceiling in the high teens for MPGs. Even when Dad still had a hard bed cover on it, he wasn't able to get much better than 18 MPG. However I believe he has 4.10 gears and it is 4wd so that doesn't help either.

Glow plug system is great and it never failed to cold start. No air leak problems either (although I never had that with my 6.9 either so.....?)

Oil capacity is significantly smaller in the 6.5 and the oil cooler is the same style as an auxiliary trans cooler. So its oil to air cooling unlike the 6.9 which uses direct oil to coolant cooling. The advantage of the integral system is it cooks off moisture in the oil more quickly during warm up. I also don't think the 6.5 has oil squirters (some one correct me if I'm wrong).

Depending on what setup the 6.5 has, it may use a hydroboost system. That works well, but the ABS sucks if equipped. In emergancy situations, my F250 will out stop my dad's truck even though mine has a weaker setup (taller tires, smaller rotors/drums and vacuum boost).

The 4L80E seems to be a good transmission so far and aside from a rusted cooler line, I never had to do anything with it. Although, my truck does most of the towing and long distance/high speed hauling. It uses 3/8" cooler lines too
Transmission also has a wider 1st gear ratio and narrower overdrive ratio so in theory good for towing.

Now for problems we have with his truck:

head gasket went out some 2 years after he bought it used from a GM dealer (truck was 10 years old at the time and had less than 100k miles). That is not a fun engine to do a head job on. Heads aren't as heavy (make that not NEARLY as heavy) as the 6.9, but the engine is encased in a cladding of complicated brackets and hoses that make the 6.9 seem very simple in comparison.

Glow plugs and injectors on the turbocharger side are much harder to get to as well.

A few months after buying the truck the alternator regulator went out (then the glow plug controller went out shortly after)

The stock cooling system we found to be lacking when it came to heavier loading. An upgraded recore solved that problem though.

Since the head job, the truck has been a turn key operation but like I said, we don't work it very hard either.

 

[sootman73]

i've had this discussion/argument many a times with my friend. he has a '96 6.5l actually the best years for the 6.5 are 96 and 97 with all the updates such as dual thermostats and the electronic DS-4. the mechanical 6.5s are gutless. thats where the low power ratings are from. when they switched IP the power went up. they also have different turbos on them throughout the years and my buddies will push 18 psi easy if he's not careful. that truck smokes me.....

the bad. heads crack easily at 210F water temp(hes replacing his now). i dont like chevies but they are a pretty good engine. i had a 6.2l so that killed the whole chevy thing for me. i like my ford better and lick stated before they tow and work much better. they can def pull more than a chevy can (although i'd give my right arm to get a factory rear locker)

 

[towcat]

I feed and care for all three makes.
For a commuter light work duty truck, the GM6.5 anyday.
For a heavy loading hard working truck, the IH IDI without hesitation.
the turbo 6.5 mech injected motor will respond easily to a Mitsu TE06H turbo stolen off a IH IDI. It will deliver acceleration like greased lighting on a 3/4t 2wd truck with a 3.23 rear and a THM700 trans.
Personally, you can't pay me enough to drive a DS4 pumped motor. You can't run fuel cocktails due to the optic sensor, the wastegate is vac controlled, and there's an ECM hiding in the mess. Thanks but no.

 

[Rot Box]

I've owned a handful of diesel trucks over the years and I will say my 95 K2500 would PULL harder than any of my Ford IDI's (and even my first gen Cummins when it was stock)--but all the Fords WORK harder better if that makes sense

The 6.5's are too hit or miss imo where with the 6.9's you get what you get. There was never one good year 6.5 but a decent one can be built by putting the right parts together.

That said I have learned that is doesn't matter what you do to one it will not stay cool (anything over 210* is a gamble when it comes to cracking heads and it is NOT hard to exceed that degree even without a load on) if you work it hard and that is ultimately why I would choose the Ford truck in the long run. Just my .02

 

[david85]

Didn't realize they were so vulnerable to cracking from running slightly hot. Guess we dodged the bullet with that one because I did come very close to over heating the truck during a hard climb while loaded. That was what killed the head gasket actually.

 

[rjjp]

Personally I would stick with the 6.9 if I were you, I have never owned a 6.5 myself but have given enough people that I know a tow home after some little BS thing (that little electric sob on the driver side of the inj. pump comes to mind, along with others) goes wrong on them to shy away from them. Plus the IH has a better reputation for longevity even when abused, just watch daves farm on youtube.

 

[TBigLug]

Lots of good input here. Looks like this was a subject that people have been wanting to discuss. One question that was raised by GOOSE was about overall body condition. My truck has definitely had a more caring life. My body is cleaner and I don't have any dents to speak of. The Chevy has a few dents and scratches (nothing to major but it's still there) and the interior is not in nearly as good of shape. I'm still considering the deal but I have a few issues with my truck I'd have to straighten out before I'd pass the truck on to anyone. I do like the 4L80E but the C6 is definitely a simpler and sturdy tranny in it' own right. I do like the mechanical 6.5's due to all the computer problems the later years had. EVERY 6.5 computer controlled truck my buddies have had, they all end up going down due to some sensor/ computer problem. Give me a screw I can turn anyday! lol