Newb Questions

[91f2504x4]

Well, I'm back from vacation, so I am working ******* the truck today.

First, I confirmed with absolute certainty that NO smoke whatsoever is coming out of the tail pipe during cranking.

I also did 2 compression tests and got these numbers:

Cyl----Test 1---Test 2
#1-----210------250
#2-----230------140
#3-----190------120
#4-----370------320
#5-----220------150
#6-----220------150
#7-----250------220
#8-----170------160

How bad are these numbers? Would this explain the no start problem?

I am sorry to see that your numbers are so low, lets just hope that possibly you had a faulty gauge. If it were just a couple cylinders that were low, we could blame it on a head gasket or valve sealing issues, but with all of them that low, you either have a bad gauge, you did something wrong (not sure what you could mess up on to be off by that much twice) or you just have a very worn engine.

It would be great to find someone close that has a verified good compression tester that would work for your engine, that could test your engine again. I never bought one to work on my diesel because I could always use the one from the shop and it was a known good snap-on, that I could use whenever I needed.

Let me see what I could come up with, I have a good friend from high school who lives close to cincinatti in Indiana who is a diesel mechanic, let me call him and see if he has everything to test that engine and then see if it is possible for him to run over there and help you sometime, I might be able to come up there too, I would probably have to take the wife though, because his gf and my wife are friends, so I couldn't stay all day, I am sure we would have to make a trip out of it and go spend money somewhere.


But an old trick you use on tractors to rule out valve problems is to squirt a few drops of oil in the cylinder and rotate the engine over a few times then hook the compression tester up and take a reading on that cylinder again and see if the number goes up. You might want to try it and see if it will raise your numbers dramtically, if so then the cylinders are plain worn out. Don't put a lot of oil, due to the little to no clearance in these diesels. I have used this trick many times on old gas tractors but have never had a diesel with numbers so low that I every tried this.

 

[vt951]

I am sorry to see that your numbers are so low, lets just hope that possibly you had a faulty gauge. If it were just a couple cylinders that were low, we could blame it on a head gasket or valve sealing issues, but with all of them that low, you either have a bad gauge, you did something wrong (not sure what you could mess up on to be off by that much twice) or you just have a very worn engine.

It would be great to find someone close that has a verified good compression tester that would work for your engine, that could test your engine again. I never bought one to work on my diesel because I could always use the one from the shop and it was a known good snap-on, that I could use whenever I needed.

Let me see what I could come up with, I have a good friend from high school who lives close to cincinatti in Indiana who is a diesel mechanic, let me call him and see if he has everything to test that engine and then see if it is possible for him to run over there and help you sometime, I might be able to come up there too, I would probably have to take the wife though, because his gf and my wife are friends, so I couldn't stay all day, I am sure we would have to make a trip out of it and go spend money somewhere.


But an old trick you use on tractors to rule out valve problems is to squirt a few drops of oil in the cylinder and rotate the engine over a few times then hook the compression tester up and take a reading on that cylinder again and see if the number goes up. You might want to try it and see if it will raise your numbers dramtically, if so then the cylinders are plain worn out. Don't put a lot of oil, due to the little to no clearance in these diesels. I have used this trick many times on old gas tractors but have never had a diesel with numbers so low that I every tried this.

Man, I would really appreciate it if you would call your diesel mechanic friend. If you and he come over, bring your wives, I'll provide steaks and beers, etc. Also, willing to pay for his services. It would be great to know for sure if those compression numbers are correct before I tear into a big engine rebuild or replacement project. I'm not even sure if this truck is worth it, having never driven it and not knowing the condition of the transmission, 4wd, suspension, or brakes.

So, about how much oil do you think would be ok to put in each cylinder? Like a teaspoon, or is that too much?

 

[towcat]

......I'm not even sure if this truck is worth it, having never driven it and not knowing the condition of the transmission, 4wd, suspension, or brakes.......

post lots of pics inside and out of the truck. you'll get a honest assesment from here.

 

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

Alan, sorry just got back on here to catch up on your problems.

Those compression numbers are low even for a cold motor.

If the PO has changed injectors, pull them all back out, check to see if there are copper washers there or not or possibly two of em stuck in there.
Loose injectors will give low compression numbers.

I had one loosen up on Mater my plow truck and on a cold motor, it dropped the compression 100 psi at about 1 full turn to tighten it.

I trust that you pulled all 8 GPs out to run the compression test to ease the load on the starter, cycled the engine at least 3 times to get an accurate reading on the test?

Since this engine has set for some time a little liquid in the cylinders to help reseal the rings wouldn't hurt as Dusty suggested.

Just trying to rule a few more things out here for ya since it looks like the problem has been narrowed considerably.

I'd hate to condemn this motor just yet and from what I've seen of it at this point, the truck is worth the time if ya have it.

I'll shoot ya my cell number in pm if ya need to give me a shout since I've only got internet access at work. Dang home phone line costs too much to pay for and not use it other than 26.4 dialup free internet.

 

[vt951]

Ron,

That's a very good thought on the injectors, especially because the PO said that the no start problem began after he re-installed the injectors! I will pull them and see.

Yes, I had all 8 GP's pulled out during the compression testing, and I cycled the engine probably 4 or 5 times while watching the gauge, until it looked like the compression max had been reached.

I would like to add some oil in the cylinders to re-seal the rings, but I'm not sure how much to add (or how much is too much). Are we talking a few drops, a teaspoon, a tablespoon, ....? I know the compression ratio is huge, so I don't want to add too much.

 

[vt951]

post lots of pics inside and out of the truck. you'll get a honest assesment from here.

I will do that. I think it's probably a solid truck, but it's just a lot of unknowns until I get it running and on the road.

 

[91f2504x4]

Ron,

That's a very good thought on the injectors, especially because the PO said that the no start problem began after he re-installed the injectors! I will pull them and see.

Yes, I had all 8 GP's pulled out during the compression testing, and I cycled the engine probably 4 or 5 times while watching the gauge, until it looked like the compression max had been reached.

I would like to add some oil in the cylinders to re-seal the rings, but I'm not sure how much to add (or how much is too much). Are we talking a few drops, a teaspoon, a tablespoon, ....? I know the compression ratio is huge, so I don't want to add too much.

I would do a couple squirts from an oil can and then rotate the engine over a few times before hooking the compression tester up. I haven't got ahold of my friend yet, he was probably visiting his parents this last weekend and had no cell service, but I am going to call him when he gets off work this evening.

 

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

Wished I was closer so I could get those injectors pop tested too while ya have em out to see what they're doing.


Dusty hit it right. As long as all the GP" sare out and a few squirts you'll be ok.

 

[vt951]

I would do a couple squirts from an oil can and then rotate the engine over a few times before hooking the compression tester up. I haven't got ahold of my friend yet, he was probably visiting his parents this last weekend and had no cell service, but I am going to call him when he gets off work this evening.

I pulled out half of the injectors last night and will pull the others tonight. I'll be looking for a shop that can pop test them. If your buddy can do it, let me know and I'll take them to him.

So far I've found 1 of the injectors (#1) did not have a copper washer, and antisieze was not used on any of them. The cylinder that had good compression (#5) had a copper washer, but it is stuck down in the hole. It looks like there's a black plastic ring inside of the washer. It's hard to tell though, maybe it's an optical illusion and I'm just seeing the injector hole in the head below it. I guess I'm wondering if #5 has something installed that the other cylinders do not, and if that's why it's compression was better.

 

[vt951]

Does anyone know how I can find a diesel shop in Cincinnati area that will test my injectors? I tried google obviously, but that turned up bigger companies that appear to work only on fleets and big rigs.

 

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

Alan, What did ya find with the other bank of injectors?

If ya want take care of shipping them to me and getting the paperwork done for em to get back to ya and I'll test em for ya.
Pm headed yer way.

 

[91f2504x4]

Does anyone know how I can find a diesel shop in Cincinnati area that will test my injectors? I tried google obviously, but that turned up bigger companies that appear to work only on fleets and big rigs.

My buddy works for one of those fleet service companies and has been too busy lately to get ahold of, he has been working long hours, starting work earlier and finished up late. I will keep trying to get ahold of him. Hopefully your problem is just a lack of seal from no copper washers or poorly installed injectors.

 

[vt951]

Alan, What did ya find with the other bank of injectors?

If ya want take care of shipping them to me and getting the paperwork done for em to get back to ya and I'll test em for ya.
Pm headed yer way.

Got your pm... all I can say is, Awesome! I will send them out with return shipping. Thank you so much!

So, the other bank of injectors all had washers and pretty much looked like the other side. But, something occurred to me that I didn't think mattered the other day. The injectors were installed with teflon tape around the threads! I think that may have resulted in the injectors not being able to be threaded in far enough to compress the copper washers. So, air would have gotten around the injector tips and filled the ports. Maybe wishful thinking, but I am hopeful that was the cause of the low compression on 7 cylinders.

So, I'm going to send off my injectors, and in the meantime, order a return line kit with all new copper washers, as well as a new set of glow plugs (to replace the Autolites with Motorcraft). I haven't found a source for the Beru ones.

 

[vt951]

My buddy works for one of those fleet service companies and has been too busy lately to get ahold of, he has been working long hours, starting work earlier and finished up late. I will keep trying to get ahold of him. Hopefully your problem is just a lack of seal from no copper washers or poorly installed injectors.

That's ok, I think I've got at least a week or 2 before I get it all back together and can do another compression test. I'll get in touch with you at that point and see if he's any less busy. Thanks for your help.

 

[91f2504x4]

Got your pm... all I can say is, Awesome! I will send them out with return shipping. Thank you so much!

So, the other bank of injectors all had washers and pretty much looked like the other side. But, something occurred to me that I didn't think mattered the other day. The injectors were installed with teflon tape around the threads! I think that may have resulted in the injectors not being able to be threaded in far enough to compress the copper washers. So, air would have gotten around the injector tips and filled the ports. Maybe wishful thinking, but I am hopeful that was the cause of the low compression on 7 cylinders.

So, I'm going to send off my injectors, and in the meantime, order a return line kit with all new copper washers, as well as a new set of glow plugs (to replace the Autolites with Motorcraft). I haven't found a source for the Beru ones.

So, the previous owner installed the new injectors with teflon tape on the threads?????