12v cummins swap experiences

those of you that have done 12v swaps to replace their idis, what kind of snags did you run in to doing so? What extra expenses came up you didn't forsee? did you use destroked.com or fordcummins.com for adaptors/parts?

I'm on the fence about doing the swap, if everything went right it would cost me about the same to put a 2nd gen cummins in my truck as it would to build the idi I want. And the cummins would have lots of room for improvement, where the idi would be at it peak (and only maybe 300hp) unless I went lowering compression and what not.

I'd really like to put a dt360 in it, but this is my dd, i can't afford the downtime or going out on a limb into new territory like that. I'll leave that up to my uncle and his 88 4x4 cc dually.

The best advice I can give is to cross all the creeks in your head many many times before you pick up the tools and start on it.

I avoided all of those pricey "conversion" companies and fabricated everything I needed myself; EXCEPT the engine-mounts, which I got from a guy in Mesa AZ who someone else has since informed me no longer makes them.

My reason for buying his mounts was that first, he came HIGHLY recommended, and second, as I would have a friend's shop and fork-lift tied up during the actual removal and installation procedure, I wanted it to be purely a one time OUT and straight back IN affair, with me not keeping his shop tied up whilst I fabricated the mounts by trial and error.

Otherwise, I would have fabricated the mounts myself.

If you can weld and have a drill-press and hack-saw, there is nothing about the swap that you cannot accomplish yourself.

I asked questions, lots of questions, and hounded anyone who had actually already done it.


Were I doing a 4X4, I would not even consider trying to adapt to any of the ZF transmissions; when you get an engine, get the manual transmission you want already bolted behind it.


USE A DIVORCED TRANSFER-CASE.

MIDNIGHT RIDER said:

Were I doing a 4X4, I would not even consider trying to adapt to any of the ZF transmissions; when you get an engine, get the manual transmission you want already bolted behind it.
USE A DIVORCED TRANSFER-CASE.

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A MEN TO THAT!! haha. YOU WILL run into things you would of never have a second thoughts about. I just got done re doing my wiring harness for a second time removing and adding a fuse/relay box. There will always be something to improve or do. it just never ends with a swap. At least with me i always want better more more. There are many ?'s you can ask yourself before the swap to make life 10000 times better.

are you going to run 1 or 2 batteries.
are you going to relocate them to make room for a bigger air filter setup?
if you move both batteries to the drivers side you might have to move the coolant bottle and the washer bottle.
Then comes wiring.

just many many things that come up and you will have to focus on and find a solution. A swap needs to be done with your imagination. Thats what makes a swap unique. The swap really isnt that hard. Just many many hours needed to make everything pur like a kitten. It doesnt happen over night

alright, thanks guys. why not use a zf? i know the adaptors are expensive but i had this transmission gone through, I'd like to use it. Supposedly the zf5 is a stronger tranny than the nv4500 anyways, not that I'd really be putting much pressure on either at ~300hp. But if I keep my zf5 I dont need to worry about a divorced t-case or driveshafts.


did you have issues with your turbo clearing the A/C box? basically I was planning on buying everything on this page and an adaptor for my zf5. I'm just wondering what all else will come up. Did you use your idi radiator? I realize each setup is different and I don't mean to "steal" anyones ideas, but if you have good pictures of your 12v under the hood I'd appreciate it if you posted them.

http://fordcummins.com/80-ford-12v-engine-mounting-kit.html

this site has an installation manual for 20-something bucks, I'm gonna buy it just to see what I'd be up against.

the zf5 isnt a bad tranny. it is "rated" for 450 ftlbs of torque or something like that. Mine has been a pain in the a but i think i have finally got it figured out. you will use all dodge components (flywheel clutch pressure plate) and a ford TOB.

you can fabricate just about anything you need as far as motor mounts and things like that. really all you need is the adapter plate and the rest is not hard to make. Depending on how you make and or buy your motor mounts, in my case it pushed my tranny and tcase back 2 1/4 inches. which means shorter rear drive shaft and longer front drive shaft.

I had to "modify" the firewall on the top to make the last valve cover fit. again really not hard to do and you cant even tell i did it..looks factory.

with the motor mounts i have i used the stock IDI radiator. and have about 2 1/2 to 3" from the radiator and fan. no issues there

My turbo (H1C) clears my a/c box with no modification. All you have to do is take the exhaust manifold and turn it upside down. then re clock the turbo housing and bolt her down. My motor was out of a dodge pickup if that tells you anything about the manifold. They make a bunch of different manifolds and a lot of people have to use the 90 degree on it.

save to 20$ and just ask ?'s on here for free cheers

According to alienterrapin's picture, I probably might could have gotten away with just flipping the Dodge-specific manifold; but, I got a chance at the elusive 90* standard-issue heavy-duty Cummins manifold and I grabbed it.

I now have miles of space between the turbo and the A/C box.


Go to the local lawn-mower shop and ask for several large-diameter pulleys from their scrap barrel; get the ones that will work with a "B" belt.

Remove the fan-pulley from the Cummins and select whichever of these pulleys that is just a bit larger diameter and has the center offset enough such that it will lay flat against the face of the Cummins pulley.

Center them perfectly and bore matching holes in the V-belt pulley, such that it can be sandwiched in front of the serpentine pulley.

You will probably also have to enlarge the center hole.

Now, you can use your Ford V-belt A/C compressor on the Cummins.



Clutch master-cylinder = both the Dodge and the Ford masters have a little roll-pin located just under the fluid-line that retains the line.

Knock out this roll-pin and you can swap a Dodge slave and line onto a Ford master.



Good engine-mount isolaters can be made with red polyurethane leaf-spring bushings meant for a 1970s GM 4x4 front.

Use appropriate size pipe to house the bushings and a big bolt through the center, a bit of welding and you have a bull-stout set of engine-mounts.

>>> ALTERNATOR <<<

At first, I fabricated a bracket and used my original Ford 1G alternator.

That worked out fine and I didn't have to change a single wire.

But, I always wanted to go 1st class, so I bought a lot of Leece-Neville alternators, enough to do my entire fleet, 110-555s 160-amp.

It is a simple matter to alter the Dodge Nippon-Denso alternator bracket such that it will accomodate the big Leece-Neville.

Along with the many other advantages of the big Leece-Nevilles, the thing that makes them so user-friendly is that they are self-contained; meaning that they are externally regulated, BUT the regulator is attached to the rear of the alternator itself.

All that is required to connect the alternator to the electrical system is to hook up two GROUNDs and a charge-cable, one about a 8-AWG GROUNDed to the body/chassis, and the other a 2-AWG GROUNDed to the top-front of the engine, and a 2-AWG charge-cable connected to battery-HOT.

Simple, simple, simple.

>>> RADIATOR <<<

Use the HUGE Ford diesel radiator.

Use the bottom Cummins hose connected to a section of 2" galvalume exhaust tubing that is connected to the radiator via a 2" 90* hose.

A wee bit of strategic bending of the tubing and a couple of support brackets and that will take care of the bottom radiator hoses.


I found a hose that I was able to cut away portions of both ends to get the proper shape from the middle such that it connects the top outlet of the Ford radiator to the Cummins engine as if it was purpose-made for it.


I did not use the two steel-tubing heater-hose tubes.

Instead, I routed hose all the way.

I did use a 4-inchish pipe-nipple and elbow on the top hose to get it headed the right direction without having a big kink in it.

>>> A/C <<<

I un-bolted my A/C compressor and carefully laid it over on the left fender/wheel-well.

I did the entire engine swap and never lost a drop of refrigerant.

Once the engine was bolted in, I fabricated a bracket and mounted the STILL-CHARGED A/C compressor onto it, connected the V-belt, and we were ready for cold air with not a penny spent.

>>> PLENTY OF WORKING ROOM <<<

This is most likely the best advice I can give.

Probably the one thing that made every aspect of the entire process a hundred times easier was installing a 2-inch body-lift prior to beginning the swap.

This seemingly small two-inches seems like miles when one is trying to clear such things as big air-cleaners, boost-tubes, A/C compressors, and such.

An un-expected advantage of the body-lift is that it forces the purchase and installation of a quality Borgeson or Flaming River steering-shaft, thus getting rid of that old worn-out oil-soaked dangerous Ford factory mess.

do you have any pics? any other reason about not using a zf

gear roll over noise.... lots of it..

Read, read and then read some more.
The only other advice I could give is listen to MNR, He know what He talks about. I did My conversion mainly asking Him questions and have not had a problem with it since.

thanks for the information!

unfortunately I can't run my A/C compressor like that because i have a serpentine setup. Other than having to re-charge the system, what's wrong with running the cummins A/C compressor? And I like the body lift idea. I may do that.

the cummins ac comp is located on the very bottom passenger side of the engine. Most the time this come in contact with the cross member. I have seen guys cut a huge chunk out of the cross member and box it back in. It needs like a hole to sit in. It can be done kind of a pain. That cross member is what holds your engine in.. just make sure if you are cutting that apart to re enforce it back in. Then new lines will have to be made. You can get a v belt pulley and clutch for you ac compressor. They are able to come off. And IN MY OPINION body lifts look like crap and i hate them. My swap was very easily accomplished with the body sitting in stock form.