What could be wrong.....OR is there anything wrong?

[VanBoy]

This weekend, I went to go look at a 1994 van w/ a 7.3L IDI. It was for a friend who wanted a cargo van. Any how, we passed up on it since seller wanted $6450 (162K miles)- crazy, KBB says it's only worth $3800 or so. It was extended, XLT, power mirrors, AC.... 3.55 axle ratio (brought the chart to decode), tow hitch, tow mirrors (big old style swing out).

Any how, it started right up after GP-ing. No hesitation in starting (followed the Ford recommend method- 1/2 throttle). But we noticed a slight grayish haze while we looked it over coming out of the pipe. We reved it up and saw some more grayish, but it cleared up after a few seconds. But, when we let it return to idle, just as it settled down to idle, it let out a greyish cloud like someone who was smoking and let a big puff out of their mouth. Then you could just see a slight haze.

I have a 1990 IDI and buddy has a 92 turbo-ed IDI F250. We have never seen either of our diesels smoke grayish. His odo has 141,000 and I'm guessing mine is 155,000 miles.

Inspection under the hood showed that the injectors still had grey paint. Had a valve cover leak and it was odd that the air cleaner housing seemed 'loose'. Saw some oil near the driver side rear, but it prob. was the oil cover leaking on the top side. Build code on the timing gear cover showed it was 93 (in par w/ a 94 model year). Forgot to take off the oil fill to see if there was any blow out of it and how much. (Tranny fluid was nice and red... no smell of being burned).

On the test drive, friend who drove it said it lacked power (but the Car Fax did say the van was a California delivery when new- different HP rating?) Said my 1990 IDI which also has a 3.55 ratio had more power then that van. Plus, the drive wasn't very long... no freeway or anything faster then 40mph. It was ideling about 5 min before it went on the test drive. Saw the haze all the time. My van, you can't see anything when it idles. I forgot to pay attention to it after it came back..... I didn't drive it.

So, were we just spooked at the grayish smoke that we saw? Or was there something there possibly. (The friend we were shopping for plans to use this van for work... and that includes it being loaded w/ about 3000lbs of stuff and going over a mountain pass (small pass), but it has to be reliable....) The lower miles is what attracted me, but seeing the smoke.... I wonder if anything was truly wrong (asside from the price or our sticker shock). I wonder since I saw another truck w/ 220K miles that was for sale at a local dealer at the fuel station today. It sounded worse then the van we looked at and puffed the same haze.....

Comments....

 

[1994Diesel]

The injectors are def. overdue for a change with originals at 162,000 miles.

That would be one source of the smoke, and the IP probably needs to be replaced also.

 

[VanBoy]

The injectors are def. overdue for a change with originals at 162,000 miles.

That would be one source of the smoke, and the IP probably needs to be replaced also.

So graysih is fuel.... opps. We thought it was oil. Was concerned that it could be the rings or maybe the valve guides.

Well, for a rig that would be put into some long distance service right way, I was concerned. Especially if I made a mistake on the condition and it broke. Friend is 'trusting' me to find a good vehicle for him. And I would not be happy myself if one had to put and IP and injectors right way..... Heck, they were asking twice Kelly Blue Book.... Bad thing is, his budget is very low.... under $3500. And he wants a diesel van....

 

[1994Diesel]

Well, i wouldnt dismiss it as a fuel issue right away. But oil burning is not noticeable in these engines, some people run waste motor oil as fuel.

Whats with the loose air cleaner?

Did you check if the engine was warm before starting?

yea, the price they are asking is insane.

I made the mistake of overpaying for my truck, $5k, so now i am here on the forum to warn people!

 

[VanBoy]

Well, i wouldnt dismiss it as fuel right away.

Whats with the loose air cleaner?

Did you check if the engine was warm before starting?

How long did the wait to start light stay on?

Well, there was thread peaking from the wing nut, but the whole housing seemed loose. We kind of bumped it...it moved. Not sure if it was really loose to just turn or rocked. The air intake opening on the filter was pointed directly toward the front of the hood. It wasn't plugged into anything like my 1990 (or most other vehicles so it could get a cold air source). It turned left/right when we grabbed a hold.


The wait to start light stayed on maybe 6-10 seconds. It seemed normal compared to my 1990 IDI when starting for the first time. Outside temps were prob in the mid to high 60's (overcast... near the coast). Engine wasn't warm from what I recall. First thing we did was pop the hood and check the fluids. Oil on the engine dip stick was at the mark (but black as night). It wasn't like we had to wipe it off because the stick had oil all over.

 

[1994Diesel]

Well for the price they are asking, the lack of a turbo and the definite need of new injectors, i dont think it is a good buy. If i were you i would offer lower than KBB.

I dont think the cover is supposed to move, i would be concerned about that. Im not sure if they had room for that plastic intake thing in that small engine bay, but i wouldnt worry about it anyways, the stock ones suck.

Those IDI cargo vans are rare though from what i believe. Maybe thats why they think they can ask for so much.

thats my $00.02.

Im sure that someone else will have some input on this too...

 

[VanBoy]

Well for the price they are asking, the lack of a turbo and the definite need of new injectors, i dont think it is a good buy. If i were you i would offer lower than KBB.

I dont think the cover is supposed to move, i would be concerned about that.

Those IDI cargo vans are rare though from what i believe. Maybe thats why they think they can ask for so much.

thats my $00.02.

Im sure that someone else will have some input on this too...

True. When I called on it first, the person who answered pointed out that it was "rare". I didn't think it was rare since I have a 1990 w/ a diesel....

Any how, what they are asking is damned highway robbery, even if it is "rare". I mean, places on the net, you can by a Power Stroke cargo van for that amount..... Everyone I talked to says that KBB is 20% high. NADA didn't even have a spot for diesel in calculating value.... but they shot out $3100.

But that 'loose' air cleaner ..... makes me wonder. We peeked at the cleaner where the air goes it... it was white/whiteish. Maybe someone just changed it.... As long as what we were seeing prob. wasn't oil related.... but the lack of power disturbs me. But as you pointed out, it's over due for injectors. Maybe that's why who ever owned it got rid of it....thought it was going out but it was just the fuel system (but that is still a pricey job if farmed out).

 

[1994Diesel]

Did they say anything about the fuel system? Replaced ip? Obviously the injectors haven't been replaced since they have factory grey paint on them. Just curious, did the return lines have paint on them too?

 

[Diesel JD]

Probably the timing is a little retarded and there was a bit of air in the lines. Could also be weepy injectors, worn pump. As far as the rings you obviously know to check for blowby by pulling the filler neck. This probably isn't really bad van if the price was right but for nearly 2x KBB, it would have to be under 100K miles, fresh fuel system, turbo, aux overdrive to even think about a price like that!!!!

 

[VanBoy]

The lot that was selling them was a 'fleet consignment' lot, best way I could say. At least that's how I understood what my buddy said that the sales person said. Every single vehicle that was on their lot was white, be it a van or pickup truck. Most were van's or van bodies, Chevy, Ford, maybe an occasional Dodge. This was the only diesel van on the lot with a 'normal' body (a few others w/ boxes). Heck, even the slightly newer box body vans, with higher miles seemed to be priced right/better then this was.

As far as I could recall, the injection system still had the factory gray paint. I'd say the return hoses were painted also, but not 100% sure. I did notice some wrench marks on the flats on the lines near the injectors. We couldn't see the IP pump (and w/ this place being a possible consignment, I don't think the seller would know... didn't volunteer any info on it). As I mentioned, this thing had two stickers, one for buying it (financed non the less) and a "lease price" for a min. amount of months.

Not sure about the timing. The van was originally delivered to California, and it "passed" an emission system test in 2002 when it had about 102K miles. I'm not savvy enough about which way to bring the timing to make the tale pipe seem cleaner. Or if the California diesels are even rated the same HP rating as non California diesels.

Side note- They recently sold a 1999/200 F550 diesel 4x4 for like $12,500..... dang. A steal.

 

[razorback]

As far as the rings you obviously know to check for blowby by pulling the filler neck.

not to jack the thread..but could you explain this a little more?

 

[towcat]

not to jack the thread..but could you explain this a little more?

warm up the motor. shut it down. pull the oil filler cap and fire it back up.
observe the smoke coming out of the oil fill. have a buddy rev up the motor a little, and see if the smoke goes away.

 

[razorback]

warm up the motor. shut it down. pull the oil filler cap and fire it back up.
observe the smoke coming out of the oil fill. have a buddy rev up the motor a little, and see if the smoke goes away.

if it goes away then it does or doesnt have blowby? my truck sat for many years, so if it does im sure its due to stuck rings.. it does have a little smoke when i pull the cap off..but never tried the start back up and rev a little..

 

[RLDSL]

Anytime that they have to start falling on the bogus *rare* card trying to justify a silly high asking price, that is so high to begin with that even haggling down to a civilized price is out of the question from the start, it's time to walk away.
They'll sit on the thing until someone with a small business who needs something to deliver with and who hasn't got a clue, but has the cash stumbles onto the lot and forks it over.

 

[VanBoy]

Anytime that they have to start falling on the bogus *rare* card trying to justify a silly high asking price, that is so high to begin with that even haggling down to a civilized price is out of the question from the start, it's time to walk away.
They'll sit on the thing until someone with a small business who needs something to deliver with and who hasn't got a clue, but has the cash stumbles onto the lot and forks it over.

Yup. That's what most car dealers/sells/store fronts are hoping for. When you trade a vehicle, the condition of the tires (if good), tow hitch, custom wheels and all that doesn't even factor into the "value" they give you for trading it in. But as soon as you are the buyer trying to purchase it from them, the start saying that it has custom wheels, a tow hitch, that help increase the value...

Funny thing is, it had a hitch, but I didn't see a plug in on the back (unless it was a 4 flat and tucked under the bumper). I didn't see any extra holes on the dash to signify that it may have had a brake controller either.

I didn't even bother to tell them that I had two diesel vans. One of which was 5 years newer and cost less then what they were asking that 94 for. We were spooked by the fact she puffed smoke.....