URGENT! Need help with valve stem seal replacement

[Cheaper Jeeper]

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I started replacing the valve stem seals today and ran into something interesting.

The set of seals I got from a local diesel shop had the regular style seals - rubber with the little coiled spring around the top lip to hold them tight against the valve stem - for the intake.

The exhaust seals are completely different though. They are like littl white teflon plastic domes with a hole for the valve stem through the center of the dome.

Well, the surprise came when I started swapping the seals. My engine has the regular style seals on BOTH the intake AND the exhaust valves.

So now I'm wondering if I got the right thing. I'm more than a little hesitant to install these odd looking plastic dome seals for fear that they might actually do a worse job of controlling oil consumption than the ones I'm taking off.

Anybody ever seen/used these white plastic dome-style seals before?

 

[fastass350]

Seems like I just read something on this not long ago, where someone said you can use them white ones, but suggested you buy two sets, and use the intake style ones on the exhaust. But, I seem to recall it saying something regarding synthetic oil, it was all in the same thread. If I was good at looking them up I'd find it for you, but I'm not,, sorry

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

Seems like I just read something on this not long ago, where someone said you can use them white ones, but suggested you buy two sets, and use the intake style ones on the exhaust. But, I seem to recall it saying something regarding synthetic oil, it was all in the same thread. If I was good at looking them up I'd find it for you, but I'm not,, sorry

So if I'm reading you right, the suggestion was to buy two sets and use the "old school" rubber ones on both intake AND exhaust valves? Funny but that was just what I was thinking of doing.

Unfortunately, the ones I pulled off the #1 cylinder didn't look bad at all. I was kinda' hoping they were trashed - which would mean they are more likely to be the cause of my excessive oil consumption. Of course I won't know until I look at all of them - some of them could still be trashed and allowing oil to get past them.

One other thing I wanted to confirm.
Since #1 & #4 are both at TDC at the same time I should be able to do the seals on both of those 2 cylinders at once. Then the thing I want to confirm is this:
After doing #1 & #4,
rotate it 1/4 turn and do #2 & #5,
rotate it 1/4 turn and do #7 & #6
rotate it 1/4 turn and do #3 & #8
...based on the firing order of 1, 2, 7, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8

That's the order that make sense to me, but I always like to bounce things off others who are "in the know" to make sure I'm not having a brain-fart. Thanks in advance for your input/feedback guys.

 

[typ4]

If you have valve seals causing oil consumption, you need guide work. Diesels have no vacuum to pull oil past the guide.

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

If you have valve seals causing oil consumption, you need guide work. Diesels have no vacuum to pull oil past the guide.

Not nearly as much, and not all the time like with a gasser. However, with an old-school turbo there is some significant vacuum a fair amount of the time - like pretty much anytime it isn't making boost, and when you get off the throttle - which is when mine puffs smoke the worst.

I had to take all the accessories off the front of the motor to replace a failed water pump, so while it is down and all that stuff is off, I fugured it couldn't hurt to do the valve stem seals while its apart.

Anybody know the correct torque for the rockers when I put them back on?

 

[RLDSL]

The 6.9 all came with the type of seals that your kit just included rubber for the intake and umbrella for the exhaust, on the early 7.3 they went to the positive rubber intake type seals on both intake and exhaust to cut down on oil consumption and emissions , unfortunately the things started eating exhaust valve guides due to the lack of lubrication reaching the exhaust valve stem, the inevitable service bullitin came out and they changes back to positive seals on the intake and umbrella seals on the exhaust. Now for folks like me who are running synthetic oil, I feel quite comfortable running the positive seals on both intake and exhaust with the extra protection I'm getting so I bought an extra set of intake seals and put them on the exhaust valves, but if running regular oil, I would not reccomend doing that. Just stick with what they sold you.
Exhaust valve is going to account for very little oil consumption that is a point of blowby, not vacuum

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

The 6.9 all came with the type of seals that your kit just included rubber for the intake and umbrella for the exhaust, on the early 7.3 they went to the positive rubber intake type seals on both intake and exhaust to cut down on oil consumption and emissions , unfortunately the things started eating exhaust valve guides due to the lack of lubrication reaching the exhaust valve stem, the inevitable service bullitin came out and they changes back to positive seals on the intake and umbrella seals on the exhaust. Now for folks like me who are running synthetic oil, I feel quite comfortable running the positive seals on both intake and exhaust with the extra protection I'm getting so I bought an extra set of intake seals and put them on the exhaust valves, but if running regular oil, I would not reccomend doing that. Just stick with what they sold you.
Exhaust valve is going to account for very little oil consumption that is a point of blowby, not vacuum

Excellent info RLDSL. I was noodling on that and what you're saying makes perfect sense. The exhaust chamber/valve guide isn't ever really exposed to vacuum, even on a gasser, that all takes place on the intake side when the valve opens and the intake chamber and valve guide get hit with vacuum as the piston does the intake stroke. I think I'll probably go ahead with installing the umbrella seals and see what happens.

BTW, you wouldn't happen to know the correct torque for the rocker arm bolts, would ya'?

 

[RLDSL]

Excellent info RLDSL. I was noodling on that and what you're saying makes perfect sense. The exhaust chamber/valve guide isn't ever really exposed to vacuum, even on a gasser, that all takes place on the intake side when the valve opens and the intake chamber and valve guide get hit with vacuum as the piston does the intake stroke. I think I'll probably go ahead with installing the umbrella seals and see what happens.

BTW, you wouldn't happen to know the correct torque for the rocker arm bolts, would ya'?

Not off the top of my head. That program is in my other computer downstairs, and I only have the spec for a 7.3, I.m not sure if the 6.9 is the same

 

[OLDBULL8]

Rocker arm bolts= 20 ft.lbs. 6.9 or 7.3 IDI

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

Rocker arm bolts= 20 ft.lbs. 6.9 or 7.3 IDI

Cool, thanks. I know the water pump bolts torque spec is 14 ft-lbs, but what I haven't seen anywhere is the torque sequence.

Anybody know if that is spec-ed anywhere, or does it not matter as long as they are all torqued to the 14 ft-lbs spec?

 

[OLDBULL8]

Just found this when looking up the bolt torque, used it as a book marker.

The valve stem seals you have are the same ones I used, White on Exhaust Brown with spring on Intake if I remember correctly.

POSITIVE TYPE VALVE STEM SEAL INSTALLATION.

1. Place plastic sleeve over valve stem and lube with a couple drops oil.
2.Carefully push the valve stem seal down until it touches the top of the valve guide.
3. Renmove the plastic sleeve.
4 Using a suitable tool, press the seal down over the guide untilthe seal is fully seated. It is important that the seal is completely seated.
5. Replace the rocker arn\m assembly, The inside of the valve spring or damper must not contact the seal or damage to the seal may be done.

There is no special sequence for the water pump bolts, just snug all bolt's them torque to 14-20 ft.lbs. Top two bolts are shorter than the rest, or they will touch the IP gear and cause trouble.

Damn had to type this twice , forgot to post it 1st time. 4:00AM here bed time .

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

Just found this when looking up the bolt torque, used it as a book marker.

The valve stem seals you have are the same ones I used, White on Exhaust Brown with spring on Intake if I remember correctly.

POSITIVE TYPE VALVE STEM SEAL INSTALLATION.

1. Place plastic sleeve over valve stem and lube with a couple drops oil.
2.Carefully push the valve stem seal down until it touches the top of the valve guide.
3. Remove the plastic sleeve.
4 Using a suitable tool, press the seal down over the guide untilthe seal is fully seated. It is important that the seal is completely seated.
5. Replace the rocker arn\m assembly, The inside of the valve spring or damper must not contact the seal or damage to the seal may be done.

Yeah, I read that procedure somewhere too. Funny thing is, the Felpro seals I got didn't come with the plastic sleeve. I'm using a slightly stretched out McDonalds drinking straw (they're bigger than most).

There is no special sequence for the water pump bolts, just snug all bolt's them torque to 14-20 ft.lbs. Top two bolts are shorter than the rest, or they will touch the IP gear and cause trouble.

Damn had to type this twice , forgot to post it 1st time. 4:00AM here bed time .

That seems kinda' odd to me, since almost everything I've ever seen in manuals whenever there is a torque spec for a part with multiple bolts there's also a torque sequence. Good to know though. Thanks!

 

[RLDSL]

LIke anything , tighten them in a cross pattern to keep things even and keep the housing from twisting. Just visually break it up into 4 sections and go from there

 

[icanfixall]

The exhaust valve seals don't install on the head guides. The snap into the upper spring keeper. I know that sounds odd but thats the book on it. Yes... You have the cylinders rotation up at the same time correct.

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

The exhaust valve seals don't install on the head guides. The snap into the upper spring keeper. I know that sounds odd but thats the book on it. Yes... You have the cylinders rotation up at the same time correct.

Well, actually, the ones I got said to install them over the valve stem and push them down to the top of the guide and that they will "find" the correct spot on their own...

Thanks for the confirmation on the correctness of the process I laid out. I confirmed it myself today - I was able to get them all done except for the exhaust valve on #8. My OH Spring compressor wouldn't work on that one because there isn't enough clearance between the head and firewall. I'm going to pick up one like this

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to get that last one. Then I just have to get a pair of valve cover gaskets and put all the accessories back on the front of the motor and I'm good to go again.

Not sure how much its going to affect oil consumption though. None of the valve stem seals looked really bad - not all that hardened and not cracked or anything - though they were kinda' stretched out. Once I took the keepers and springs off the seals didn't even grip the valve stems enough to keep the valves from sliding down under their own weight until they touched the piston.

The new ones grip the stems much tighter and will easily support the weight of the valves and hold them up off the pistons. Maybe that will be enough to make a difference. I'll know here in just a few days.