Timing question.

[Flagship]

Today, I was at my Ford dealership and while there, I tried to purchase a couple of coolant test strips. (I keep going to call then DCA test strips) They didn't have any individual strips and said they only get the containers with a lot of strips. I asked the service writer and he took me back into the shop to speak with the tech who was quite willing to give me a couple of strips but asked what I was going to use to match the color. Hmmm....

He suggested that I bring the truck in and he'd check it for me. It's a 110 mile trip! So, I asked that if I brought it there, could they check and set the pump timing for me. He said yes, they had the tool although it hadn't been used in a while.

The reason for this long post is to ask if there is anything I should be aware of. Shouldn't a dealership be qualified to do this? Normally, I wouldn't worry, it usually a pretty good shop but, the subject of timing, when mentioned on this forum, seems to require some special skills, coupled with a little rattling of bones and the waving of a dead chicken over the subject vehicle.

Am I expecting too much of a dealership? Or, am I just a little too paranoid?

 

[Silver Burner]

Seems like most tech's these days don't know how to time an IDI. I don't think a whole container of test strips is very expensive. Something like 5 bucks. I'm sure someone here will pipe in with much more info than I have.

 

[FordGuy100]

I dont think Ford dealers are required to train their employees for IDI's. I guess you can think of it as a lost art. Maybe you will be lucky and find an ole time Mechanic who will remember, but the newer guys most likely wont.

 

[hesutton]

If they still have the Kent Moore meter and he sounds like he's used it before, then I say go for it. I'd be willing to bet you'll be a happy camper when they are done.

Heath

 

[Agnem]

Clean out your upper crackshaft damper port probe hole with a 5/16" drill bit. Make sure you can fit the blunt end all the way in until it hits the crankshaft damper. This may save you some labor time, if you luck out and this guy actually knows something. Mark your pump to gear housing postion by striking a pointed punch in the seem between the two, leaving a half round mark on either side. This will allow you to see how much he moves the pump, and also allow you to return it to this position if he foobars it. If you can, ask them to take out the tool and power it up, and make sure all the pieces are there. It would be just like some fool to make you drive all that way, and get out the tool and go "duh.... it don't come on, or it's missing stuff" since they haven't looked at it in forever. Ask them if they are going to do pulse or luminosity timing. If luminosity, make sure you have good quality fuel in your rig. Don't try and time it with junk in the system. Tell him -20 offset and 8.5 degrees at 2000 RPM if using pulse. He won't remember, and may try to fake it. I'd be willing to bet 50% of the time people pay a shop to do this, they can't get the meter to read right, don't know what it should read, or just time it by ear and call it good. They just want your money.

 

[Flagship]

If they still have the Kent Moore meter and he sounds like he's used it before, then I say go for it. I'd be willing to bet you'll be a happy camper when they are done.

Heath

They told me there was only one mechanic that did the IDI work. He said the tool worked last time he used it. He has Master Tech badge on his shirt and several people there have said how good he is. I guess we'll find out.

Yesterday, at the dealer, was one of those days anyway... : I sat with the General Manager for about 3/4 hour having him explain to me just why I should continue to trade there after the experiences I have had. He made some phone calls and I noticed a definite change in attitude when I went to the shop to have the oil changed in my wife's car, the one we bought there just 3 months ago.

We'll see. Seems more often than not, you just have to grab these guys by the throat and 'splain what's what. Then all's fine.

Bart

 

[Flagship]

Clean out your upper crankshaft damper port probe hole with a 5/16" drill bit. Make sure you can fit the blunt end all the way in until it hits the crankshaft damper. This may save you some labor time, if you luck out and this guy actually knows something.

I assume there's a casting somewhere, that would take the place of the timing mark plate on a gasoline engine, where a probe would be inserted? I'll look around and clean up anything that looks like that.

Mark your pump to gear housing position by striking a pointed punch in the seem between the two, leaving a half round mark on either side. This will allow you to see how much he moves the pump, and also allow you to return it to this position if he foobars it.

Really good advice. It WILL be done!

If you can, ask them to take out the tool and power it up, and make sure all the pieces are there. It would be just like some fool to make you drive all that way, and get out the tool and go "duh.... it don't come on, or it's missing stuff" since they haven't looked at it in forever.

Actually, see my last post. That would most likely work out in my favor!

Ask them if they are going to do pulse or luminosity timing. If luminosity, make sure you have good quality fuel in your rig. Don't try and time it with junk in the system.

I just use the big truck diesel fuel at the Exxon station here and dose it really good with Power Service. I assume it's good fuel. I'd probably hear the howling from the OTR drivers, all the way to my house if it wasn't!

Tell him -20 offset and 8.5 degrees at 2000 RPM if using pulse. He won't remember, and may try to fake it. I'd be willing to bet 50% of the time people pay a shop to do this, they can't get the meter to read right, don't know what it should read, or just time it by ear and call it good. They just want your money.

Yeah. But what if he asks me what I mean by -20 offset? Then he'd ask why he should follow the instructions of someone who knows not what they're speaking? I wouldn't blame him. Now *I* certainly know enough to follow whatever you say, but I'll bet he doesn't. What is offset? How do you measure it? Darn! I really hate having someone do something to my equipment when I don't know what they're doing enough to know if they know what they're doing.

Bart

 

[Flagship]

Mel,

I did what you suggested about marking the pump and housing. I had to go under the hood again today as I lost yet another glow plug! That's the last of the Bosch plugs. This one had bubbled up a little and I feared taking it out, but I finally coaxed it out. I have all new Beru's in there now. I'm keeping the three old Beru's as spares.

Whew!

 

[War Wagon]

I just use the big truck diesel fuel at the Exxon station here and dose it really good with Power Service.

From what I have seen and experienced, I wouldn't put power service in anything. That stuff is junk as far as I am concerned. As far as the timing goes, hopefully they have an older mechanic who knows how to work on an IDI. I would bet most FORD techs in the dealerships today don't even know what an IDI is. Probably not very many of the good ones left still at the dealerships.

 

[Flagship]

Well, you're in a *much* colder part of the country than I, so you should certainly know about such stuff!

I've used PS in my "Big Rigs" since the early eighty's without problems. I use it mainly because I don't have gelling problems and my trucks do seem to start and run better with it. Howe's is a good product, but it's more expensive and more concentrated. You're *supposed* to use less of it, but, when you're out there at -10 and the wind's blowing and you're trying to fuel your outfit, I find I kinda just pour way too much in the tank. No jell is no jell.

That's about the extent of additives available all the time. So, what do you suggest / use?

 

[Agnem]

Your man should know what a 20 degree offset is, and if he doesn't your in big trouble. The probe hole is 20 degrees before TDC on the crank. If the meter doesn't know that, then all its computations will be off.

 

[snicklas]

From what I have seen and experienced, I wouldn't put power service in anything. That stuff is junk as far as I am concerned.

Why do you say Power Service is junk? Have you had a bad experience using it? Not trying to start an argument, would just like to hear the reason why you feel this way.

 

[johneich]

Bart, here is what it looks like

"I assume there's a casting somewhere, that would take the place of the timing mark plate on a gasoline engine, where a probe would be inserted? I'll look around and clean up anything that looks like that."

 

[Agnem]

The taller of the two holes, the one on the right, is the one you need to worry about.

 

[War Wagon]

I have never heard anything good about power service. Up here it is not uncommon to be -20 for a week straight. I have seen trucks and pickups come in to the shop gelled up with power service in the tank. Ex: 97 F350 7.3L running winter blend fuel and treating it with ps w/recent fuel filter change. Towed into the shop dead. Got it warmed up and running and there appeared to be nothing wrong. Customer stated that the fuel bowl would not fill. I checked it and it was filling normally. Went for a test drive down the highway and ran outside for 6 hours at 2000 rpm no problems. This happened to him twice. I asked him what additive he was using - power service. I put Stanadyne in his tank and told him he should change additives and have never seen him again. There have been a lot of service calls up here with the tanks full of ps or ps 911 gelled up dead on the road or in a parking lot somewhere. I run Stanadyne in my pickup as do my co-workers and have no problems in the cold. Stanadyne and Howes seem to be good, but all I ever seem to see or hear about power service is negative.