Timing effects on starting

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

OK so after watching how easily Rob was able to start up his truck with 6 times the mileage on it I became a wee bit jealous.

After spending 240 clams to completely redo the GP system on Mater, he still would grumble at starting and not start without aid at temps below 20 degrees and I was worrying about burning up a starter.

So assuming that the previous owner who had the motor and IP rebuilt by a reputable shop, would have correctly timed the motor after doing so, was the wrong assumption.

Truck started great in warmer weather, had that almost ear deaffening sound on startup so I figured it was close. Engine has less than 50k on the rebuild but did sit for 5 years and was never turned over.

Sooooo, last night I had enough and at the cost of starters, I decided to bump up the timing a dimes width on the marks to see what I get since I don't have access to a timing meter setup yet.

Bumped it up and gave it a crank. VRRROOM! at 2 seconds of cranking.

Hallelulah, nice loud sounding ear deafening rattle sounding much more like a cold diesel should at 22 degrees out.

I politely placed the can of ether back on the shelf and felt comfortable that everything is now where it should be and it can collect dust in the shop.

More power on the road even with a load of firewood in the back and the plow bucking the wind on the front.

Yup, now it's off to replace ball joints and tierods ASAP cause I got a front wheel doing the balljoint lean.

So the moral of the story is that cold weather and improper timing does infact correlate with hard or no starting situations without aid of heat or drugs!

 

[Agnem]

Hence the reason we all have cold timing advance solenoids. Wonder if yours is working?

 

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

Hence the reason we all have cold timing advance solenoids. Wonder if yours is working?

Yep it works.

 

[jodydewey]

tools

When you set the timing higher on your engine how did you get the nuts loose on the IP? A regular wrench just cant get in there. Did you modify a wrench to fit or did you buy a special one? If you bought a special one where did you get it? My 1989 7.3 is doing the exact same thing - it takes a REALLY long time to start when cold even on a warm day. I replaced the glow plugs and the glow plug relay. I even put a full manual glow plug relay on there so on cold mornings I can give it a little more time. The truck takes about 15 seconds of cranking to get started.

 

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

I did modify an el cheapo boxed end wrench.

Now how many miles are on the IP?
Is there any sign of wetness around the return lines possibly indication an air intrusion somewhere?
On the 7.3 systems in your area, ya really shouldn't need to extend the glow time.

Advancing the pump rotate the pump counter clockwise. Only go a dimes width to a time using the scribed marks at the IP/ timing cover mounting area as reference.

 

[Ironman03R]

I just did this today. I've been waiting to do it because I'm going to do injectors sometime soon... But I figure I burn a GP or 2 about every 3 weeks now so its time to do something!

 

[69oiler]

yeah mine starts pretty quick even with the stock old style GP system.
timing makes a big difference in how the engine behaves in general.

 

[jodydewey]

timing

I did modify an el cheapo boxed end wrench. Now how many miles are on the IP?Is there any sign of wetness around the return lines possibly indication an air intrusion somewhere?On the 7.3 systems in your area, ya really shouldn't need to extend the glow time.Advancing the pump rotate the pump counter clockwise. Only go a dimes width to a time using the scribed marks at the IP/ timing cover mounting area as reference.

You mean turn it counter clockwise facing which way?** I thought to advance it you must turn the pump towards the drivers side.* Is that correct or do you turn it towards the passenger side.* I would be facing the motor after loosening the nuts.

 

[69oiler]

top of the pump towards the passenger side to advance timing.

 

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

yeah mine starts pretty quick even with the stock old style GP system.
timing makes a big difference in how the engine behaves in general.

I gotta confess Rob, seeing that video was that proverbial piece of straw that finally made me get to resolving the starting problem.



Jody, Rob beat me to it.

 

[BigRigTech]

I want to do this to my old girl too, how does it run when it's warmed up completely?, does it pull better????...I was just going go the width of the scribe lines on the pump. 426,000KM on mine - might get back a little of the power the old girl has lost over the years.

 

[sassyrel]

ALSO---and agnem will tell you this --it needs to be timed properly--why??? i timed mine properly---with a snapon meter ive had for years---only i advanced it a mite more---while the basic engine didn suffer--the gp's sure did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if tis tooo far -----by by gp's after a bit---ran like scat--but wasnt worth replacing gp's for the gain----so back to stock----

 

[jdchristian3]

What do you mean by aids... ether? if so your GPs are trash now. one shot of ether will burn the tips off of 6.9 and 7.3 IDI GPs. if you have a PSD, it has an intake heater whigh will cause an explosion possibly if you use ether....

 

[typ4]

You mean turn it counter clockwise facing which way?** I thought to advance it you must turn the pump towards the drivers side.* Is that correct or do you turn it towards the passenger side.* I would be facing the motor after loosening the nuts.

The easy way to remember is to retard toward the driver. Doesnt fit us but there are lots of retarded drivers out there.

 

[82F100SWB]

I've been trying to get this through a buddy of mine's head... He's a first time diesel owner, and ended up with another friend's F250(has my old non gated banks turbo on a sub 80K mile 93 7.3/ZF/D60 swap etc....) We put a new IP, injectors, and GP's in it last winter, I set the timing up on it for Steph, and the thing ran great, not as good as my 6.9, but, that's all in the IP...
Mat is the kind of guy who gets his fingers into everything for no good reason, and started monkeying with the timing on it, I'm not quite sure why, but, he figured out that if he retarded the timing lots(I'm talking 1/2" to the DS of the mark..) it will spool the turbo up faster(dumping fuel into the exhaust will do that) The thing needed glow plugs to start hot it was so bad. I finally got pissed off listening to him crank the life out of the starter and did a quick by ear re-time, and it started and ran great... 2 days later he tells me that it was too rattly and the turbo didn't spool up right, so he "fixed" the timing... Now he's parting the thing out because it won't start and eats fuel... Sometimes you just can't help a guy out...

As for how a properly timed 6.9 starts cold, well, this is plugged in, but still a mighty cold start:
http://www.bigblocksix.com/f100swb/-31coldstart.wmv