Time for new battery cables...

[The Warden]

Well, my buddy and I just condemned my battery cables today...along with the starter, and probably the batteries as well.

My buddy is going through an auto electronics course, so he has the ability to conduct a voltage-drop test on an electrical system. We decided to check the voltage drop on the starter circuit on my truck...with connections happy and everything, it turns out that I'm losing 600 milivolts on the ground side and 600 milivolts on the positive side.

And, the starter was only pulling 9.57 volts...

So, replacing battery cables is no longer a nice idea; it NEEDS to be done...does anyone know of a relatively inexpensive source for bulk 2/O cable? I know I can get it at West Marine, for about $6/foot...and, while that's cheaper than buying new OEM cables (which I'd rather not use), that's not cheap by any stretch of the imagination.

Thanks!

 

[Exekiel69]

would this help?

 

[The Warden]

That's not bad, except I don't know what gauge cable he's using...be nice if there were pictures of the finished product.

Also, according to his contact info, he's not accepting new orders until March due to medical issues...and I need to take care of this sooner than that...

 

[Mojave Red]

Poke around the site a little... He uses 2/0, and has 3/0,4/0 if you want them. Looks like he's got all the rigth part to do what we want. $100 for all three cables - I might be interested.

 

[RLDSL]

If they have a Truck Pro store in your area ( http://www.truckpro.com/ ) I picked up 3/0 cable there for around $3.50 a ft ( took about 17ft, could get by with 16, but I made the ground cables a bit longet ) and about 7 ft of 6 ga for the little cables, and they had Copper crimp fittings pretty cheap, but I went to NAPA for the heavy crimp fittings. I got some large heat shrink tubing from the farm supply and I always coat battery cable ends with Noalox ( elec oxidation preventer ) before crimpoing the ends on, they last forever.

If you don't have a cable crimper, they run about $45.
You'll still be able to do the works for cheaper than just a positive cable even if you have to buy a crimper.

I picked up a pair of group 31 stud top batteries , 1190 ca, 1000 cca at truck pro as well for about $63 each

That turkey spins seriously fast now

----------Robert

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

Whatever you do, ditch the lead terminals and go with stud type 30S or 31S batteries.

This is one of my favorite modifications on my truck.

Disconnecting a cable is no longer a dreaded task.

Spin off a wing nut, and it is loose.

 

[sle2115]

I purchased my cable from NAPA, 2/0 was like $2.00 per foot and very nice cable. I purchased the ends from link above. He has the flag style terminals etc. with an extra bolt for adding items such as a winch or such. Very nice guy to deal with as well. Didn't know about the health issues so if you have to make due, NAPA also had the bronze style ends which in my opinion are better than lead. As far as screw on style, I had them on my truck when I got it and I didn't like them. To each his own I guess.

Check with your local NAPA though as they had the best deal on cable for me.

 

[Exekiel69]

I got some large heat shrink tubing from the farm supply and I always coat battery cable ends with Noalox ( elec oxidation preventer ) before crimpoing the ends on, they last forever.

----------Robert

Can you explain this further? What is this product you talk about? where do I get it?

 

[The Warden]

If they have a Truck Pro store in your area ( http://www.truckpro.com/ ) I picked up 3/0 cable there for around $3.50 a ft ( took about 17ft, could get by with 16, but I made the ground cables a bit longet ) and about 7 ft of 6 ga for the little cables, and they had Copper crimp fittings pretty cheap, but I went to NAPA for the heavy crimp fittings. I got some large heat shrink tubing from the farm supply and I always coat battery cable ends with Noalox ( elec oxidation preventer ) before crimpoing the ends on, they last forever.

Too bad that it looks like TruckPro's limited to the East Coast...$3.50 for 3/O is unbelievable! It turns out that I know someone at West Marine, and he can cut me a deal on the cable...but even with the lowest possible discount, it's still about $3.50/ft for 2/O. Also, what is this Noalox stuff, and how exactly do you go about using it? I use felts and a spray stuff that's meant to go onto the terminals after hooking everything together, but it sounds like this is something different, and worthwhile for a long-term repair.

If you don't have a cable crimper, they run about $45.
You'll still be able to do the works for cheaper than just a positive cable even if you have to buy a crimper.

I actually have found that a BFH and a chisel (or a sturdy flathead screwdriver) do a pretty good job of crimping cable ends. It's a bit hick-ish, but I never had any problems with cable ends loosening up on my old van when I did this.

I picked up a pair of group 31 stud top batteries , 1190 ca, 1000 cca at truck pro as well for about $63 each

That's not bad at all! Too bad there isn't a TruckPro on the Left Coast I agree with you completely on the stud batteries; when I did the custom cables on my van, I got an adapter from auto terminals to stud terminals...and really loved being able to take cables off with the wingnut, as Rider pointed out. I didn't think anyone sold batteries that would fit in our trucks that had this setup to begin with.

But, replacing batteries will have to wait...amazingly enough, in spite of being 4 years old and looking ratty, both my batteries passed a load test with flying colors. I was surprised they did so well given their age, but I really can't complain about them...they've been doing a good job thus far.

Brian, thanks for pointing that out...I missed that; was in a hurry when I looked through the site. I'm wondering how he can get the cable cheap enough to be able to sell all three for $100 using 2/O all around? As much as I want to do a setup myself using the stud terminals and whatnot, that might be the smarter way to go...except that I would need to wait until March, and I don't think I can wait that long...

BTW, I got the old cables pulled this evening, so I can measure and whatnot...I also pulled the starter and got it replaced (thank goodness for Pep Boys' warranty ), although it's not installed yet and won't be until the cables are replaced. Real quick question...the negative cable on the starboard side battery had a small wire going into the terminal at the engine block. The wire went up under the inner fender assembly, and I can't figure out where it went off to. Does anyone know where this wire goes to? I cut the wire to get the cable out (thinking that I can splice a connector in or something if all else fails), but it'd be nice to replace it as well if possible. I assume it's the body ground...

 

[94Turbo]

600 milivolts per side dosent sound bad did you OHM the cables or check the connectors, sound like your 4 year old batteries to me. Those heater element load testers dont put half the load on a set of batteries as our high compressoin engines do

 

[RLDSL]

Noalox is generally available at most hardware stores near the wiring and breaker panels. It is used in new construction on service entrance wires to prevent corrosion and oxidation . The stuff is designed for the wires on a house to last indefinitely .
It has a temp rating that is higher than the cables will ever see unless the truck burns to the ground.
After you strip the insulation off, squeeze a little of the stuff on the cable end , work it don from the end in between the strands, and around the outer strands with a little excess, then crimp the end on tight, and seal with heat shrink tubing. that connection will not corrode and you will have effectively sealed off the strands in the casing from outside contaminants and oxidation.

put a thin film of it on the outside of the cable ends where they contact the batteries and the block and the starter to keep a good low resistance connection at those points as well.

Also handy stuff for use on wire connectors after cleaning, put a thin film on with a q tip and no worry about the stuff running and crossing connectors when it gets hot.

A small bottle is pretty much a lifetime supply. I bought I think a 10 oz bottle a couple of years ago and even with all the customer cars I work on, I still have about 1/3 of a bottle.

-----------Robert

 

[towcat]

warden-
i cheat on my cables
I take the factory cables and cut the clamp ends off.
crimp on lug ends and get marine terminal adaptors for the batteries.
want a good pos cable to play with?

 

[The Warden]

600 milivolts per side dosent sound bad did you OHM the cables or check the connectors, sound like your 4 year old batteries to me.

The way we tested the voltage drop, I don't think it was or even could have been a test on the condition of the batteries. When testing the negative side, one lead was clipped to a good ground and the other lead was held on the negative post on the battery...and when testing the positive side, one lead was clipped to the terminal on the starter solenoid and the other was held on the postive post on the battery. The meter measured the difference in voltage between one end of the cable and the other while cranking the engine...which at least appears to me to be a more accurate way of measuring how much resistance are in the cables than a simple ohm test (which I imagine would show 0 ohms in a 14 gauge wire of the same length, but good luck getting a 14 gauge wire to safely power the starter) would. Maybe I'm not understanding this fully, but it seems logical to me. And, losing over a volt and a half between the positive terminal and the negative termina doesn't seem good to me no matter how you look at it, considering that we really need every milivolt to keep these engines starting happily.

Those heater element load testers dont put half the load on a set of batteries as our high compressoin engines do

So, when the load tester is set to pull 875 amps from the battery, it doesn't? I have to say that, if this test was a false-positive, it'll be the first I've seen...inlcuding tests on other batteries out of an IDI (both this truck and my old van). Considering that I haven't had any problems that I can attribute to the batteries (I know that the weak starter was a result of overcranking, and the cables didn't appear to be in very good shape which is why we decided to test them), I think they really are okay...I mean, their age is the only reason I even questioned them.

i cheat on my cables
I take the factory cables and cut the clamp ends off.
crimp on lug ends and get marine terminal adaptors for the batteries.
want a good pos cable to play with?

That's not a bad idea...although my cables are as old as the truck herself and are showing their age. I might take you up on on the positive cable; let me see if Napa has any bulk and go to my West Marine buddy and see what exactly I'm looking at...I'll let you know. Thanks!

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

Most guys around here go to a welding supply and buy welding-lead cable to make up battery cables.

I don't know the pros and cons of using welder cable; but, a lot of the big truck mechanics recommend it, especially when the batteries are way back on the frame.

 

[94Turbo]

And, losing over a volt and a half between the positive terminal and the negative termina doesn't seem good to me no matter how you look at it, considering that we really need every milivolt to keep these engines starting happily.

Even with new batteries, cables and a brand new starter you will get a voltage drop under a heavy load maybe not as much as your seeing but not much less.


So, when the load tester is set to pull 875 amps from the battery, it doesn't? I have to say that, if this test was a false-positive, it'll be the first I've seen...inlcuding tests on other batteries out of an IDI (both this truck and my old van). Considering that I haven't had any problems that I can attribute to the batteries (I know that the weak starter was a result of overcranking, and the cables didn't appear to be in very good shape which is why we decided to test them), I think they really are okay...I mean, their age is the only reason I even questioned them.

Your load tester is not putting 875 amps on the battery basically it is a resistor shorted across the terminals thats why the get red hot the voltage drop is measured by the meter and depending on what loadtester you have it
will be shown in amps or some cheap ones just have good weak or bad scale. A series wound DC motor under load puts a lot more strain on your batteries

/QUOTE]

I guess what Im trying to say is 4 year old batteries are living on borrowed time and if you spend all your cash on new cables and terminals and then have to turn around and get batteries anyway that would suck especially if all they needed was a good cleaning and a few terminal ends.