fx4wannabe
Full Access Member
Pump timing also has a lot to do with it. I was shocked how much better she ran when I bumped the timing a degree or so.
So what's the hot power combo?
- Thread starter crashnzuk
- Start date
crashnzuk
Full Access Member
So, here's what I've gathered;
healthy engine to start with
good inj pump
good injectors
timing at or about 9.5
turbo
free flowing intake and exhaust
Optional;
intercooler (good idea for towing)
Type4 cam (sounds good, but lots of work unless already apart)
Aside from the optional items, is this about it for a strong running IDI? Have I left anything out? What's the best place to start if it doesn't run like others with the same equipment? Assuming a healthy engine, the injection pump probably has the most effect on economy and driveability, right?
Travis..
healthy engine to start with
good inj pump
good injectors
timing at or about 9.5
turbo
free flowing intake and exhaust
Optional;
intercooler (good idea for towing)
Type4 cam (sounds good, but lots of work unless already apart)
Aside from the optional items, is this about it for a strong running IDI? Have I left anything out? What's the best place to start if it doesn't run like others with the same equipment? Assuming a healthy engine, the injection pump probably has the most effect on economy and driveability, right?
Travis..
travis-
I tend to drive my CC like a sports car and with the IC , there's no power fade over 3k rpm. so imho, a IC is a good idea no matter if the truck is a puller or not.
A cam and rings is the "dirty little secret" that puts a truck above others
GOOSE
Happy IDI'er
Water ****, propane, a little porting on the intake/ and heads(gasket matching, basically.) There are things to do if you're creative. Many people simply do not have the time or money. Those that do and have a heart for the IDI are very rare.
How about a custom one off intake, headers?
crashnzuk
Full Access Member
If a guy were doing a rebuild, a cam and ported heads, etc would be a no brainer. I'm not talking max output, no more left on the table here, I'm talking what's the best way to get decent power from a runner. I know some engines run better than others from the git go, even identical stockers. It would be nice to see some of the trucks that claim low power to be able to make them better and closer to expectations. I thoroughly understand the comments about a small block gasser outperforming an IDI with exception to fuel mileage. BUT, I also don't think that should be the case. A diesel with a turbo should not pull the same as a small gas engine, IDI or not.
Travis..
Travis..
GOOSE
Happy IDI'er
I definitely agree with you. I think you are eluding to an overhaul of the medium wear parts on these IDI's. ALL of these trucks are at an age of which this is necessary if it hasn't been done already. There is a sticky about this. A Moose/baby Moose pump, Moose or Typ4 BB code injectors and new return lines would be the top shelf, best way to go. Time it properly and compare to the old power level. After this it will start easier, smoke less ( I'm not talking about black smoke), have more power and get more fuel economy.
I have only seen two gassers that could come even close to the Logger(see Signature) in regards to towing power. My FE Ford 390 (factory 325hp with 2bbl,Y pipe exhaust, out of '68 tbird) which was .030 over, 4bbl intake, headers, obviously not stock, the only gasser I would ever put an effort into again. The other was a '79 Dodge w400 powerwagon with a 360 and 4:88 gears(ex forest fire truck). Fe motor did good netting 12mpg with 35" tires and 4:11's, Dodge got 6mpg's.
I hope that if an IDI has you thinking smallblock power, you know something is wrong!! Just turning the screw up on the Logger made a big difference.
crashnzuk
Full Access Member
I think you're following me Goose You are one of the guys who is happy with his power, along with the Idaho green truck (forget username
), but there are others here complaining about screaming up a grade at 45 towing a not too impressive load. It seems like there are guys on both sides of the fence, but not too much difference in the truck's set-up. Just that some run good, and some just run.
Does anyone know how much different the injection pump is between the lower rpm international pump and the Ford pick-up pump? I know the torque on these engines drops off quite a bit past 2500 rpm or so. Do the IH pumps have a better/different timing curve? It seems to me the extra rpm of the Ford pump is a waste since it puts you waayyy past the torque. I know the IHs have deeper gearing, but I've heard guys say that their big, heavy (comparatively) medium duty IDIs hold their own in the hills. You would think that the same basic engine in a lighter pick-up (again, comparatively) would really do a good job towing up grades. Any thoughts?
Travis..
You are one of the guys who is happy with his power, along with the Idaho green truck (forget username), but there are others here complaining about screaming up a grade at 45 towing a not too impressive load. It seems like there are guys on both sides of the fence, but not too much difference in the truck's set-up. Just that some run good, and some just run. Does anyone know how much different the injection pump is between the lower rpm international pump and the Ford pick-up pump? I know the torque on these engines drops off quite a bit past 2500 rpm or so. Do the IH pumps have a better/different timing curve? It seems to me the extra rpm of the Ford pump is a waste since it puts you waayyy past the torque. I know the IHs have deeper gearing, but I've heard guys say that their big, heavy (comparatively) medium duty IDIs hold their own in the hills. You would think that the same basic engine in a lighter pick-up (again, comparatively) would really do a good job towing up grades. Any thoughts?
Travis..
the ford app with auto trans is a junk setup where the c6 and e4od without lockup mod slip when faced with a decent hill its jsut a fact also the manual versions the t19 is solid but a work horse not a speed demon therefore its gear range is limited and the zf has a better gear range with the od but creates too many spots you need to down shift so auto its a tranny issue manual id say driver
but i know the ih pump is slightly different but not by much its got the hp and trq closer but with the higher gearing and the trans needs more speeds and more options
but i know the ih pump is slightly different but not by much its got the hp and trq closer but with the higher gearing and the trans needs more speeds and more options
Brianedwardss
Registered User
A fresh fuel system make a huge difference!
I just replaced my IP and injectors.. HUGE difference. I'm not one to exaggerate things, but it was night and day. Now I can go up hills empty truck and not get passed by semi's with 53's..
X2. When I did my pump/injr's, I also advanced mine 1.5 degrees. Much better mpg plus faster starts. Its loud now
This is a common response. Performance of the IDI trails off so slowly over time it is not perceptable to the driver. What usually happens is years later, they think "This truck seemed to have more power years ago, but maybe that's just me romancing my memory". Most will not do a voluntary "tune up" which consists of refreshing the fuel system, because "it runs great!". Yet in reality a voluntary replacment of IP and injectors every 100,000 miles (what I would consider a maximum service life... 50 to 75K would be a much better interval) is really what is needed. I've observed that injectors loose their optimimum pop presure within the first 10,000 miles, so things really go down hill a lot faster than you might think.
My numbers are with just Moose fuel and a Banks turbo with the wastegate unhooked. No studs, actually, I just reused the old headbolts. Nothing internal is modified at all. Stock compression ratio is the likely reason for the high torque. You start droppping the compression you had better have a ton of fuel and a better turbo than your standard Banks, Hypermax, or ATS.
Heath
Heath
gatorman21218
Registered User
mel I think this is what is going on with Big Green. I mean "It Runs Great!" but I cant get her over 50mph on a small hill and she doesnt smoke at all even if i lug her. What would one of these overhauls cost me? I dont really want a moose pump no offense (I'm an old natty which wont really benafite right?). Just throw some numbers at me so i can roll them around between my ears. Thanks
PS sorry for hijack but that post really struck me as describing my truck.
No offense taken. Not everybody needs a Moose Pump. Not everybody needs a Baby Moose either, but what they DO need is a quality rebuild. If your looking at a $350 exchange IP and think that is what your getting, the $200 your saving, well... your not really saving. You'll just end up replacing it sooner rather than later. If you have to save $200 this year, so you can spend $350 again in a few years I understand that. Economics is what it is. Just don't think that going cheap will save you money. It MIGHT if you don't plan to outlive your next pump, but then you don't need money anymore anyway. 
A refresh will cost you about $900 (pump and injectors) if you want the good stuff.
A refresh will cost you about $900 (pump and injectors) if you want the good stuff.
gatorman21218
Registered User
Well i'm only 19 years old so I sure do hope to outlive an IP. Thanks for the info. I guess at this stage I can experiment with WMO without too much guilt then. And I do plan on fixing all the leaks on my truck before fixing something that aint broke, just warn out
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