Question Re: Buying A Diesel Vs A Gas Truck

[XOLATEM]

Dear ISPKI,

I have the greatest respect for a man that works with metal and has an engineering background and I only wish that I had gone a different route in my education early on when I had the backup and resources to do so..things might have been very different for me if I had...

And...

I appreciate very much your heartfelt treatise on modern automotive technology and I see where you are coming from on many points and maybe even agree with you on some from my own logical and emotional perspective...

But...

Get a load of this...https://www.howtopreventratsfromeatingcarwires.com/2017/02/10/does-your-car-have-soy-based-wiring/

Time does not allow me to give your recommendation another perspective...this is just the first thing to come to mind after having been a mechanic in the field since 1978 after having been studying mechanical things since around 1970...

Remember...the surface transportation industry is a BUSINESS..for profit...and as such compromises will be made and costs will be cut.

Don't think for a minute that any altruistic purpose has EVER been driving supposed technological advances...

Another thing...all of the technology that supposedly makes vehicles better, safer, and longer lasting has the opposite effect with road safety...just drive on a highway at most any time and you will see people acting like they are invincible and driving like insane lunatics...

Most anyone that has been on the major highways will attest to the truth of that assertion...I am sure you have...

Have you ever witnessed what happens when you have a kid and 'give' them 'everything..'?...they don't appreciate ANYTHING...because they come to 'expect' 'everything' since they 'get' it so easily...and as a result they become ever so progressively DEMANDING.

It is a logical conclusion that just having airbags reduces a driver's anxiety about having a collision...and in turn they will drive more aggressively...endangering other innocent fellow travellers.

Yesterday I witnessed a twenty-something trying to learn to drive a stickshift car...something I learned as a young teen..there is a reason that having a manual transmission car is joked as being millenial-proof.

And this is supposed to be 'progress'?

Respectfully submitted...

An old mechanic...

 

[XOLATEM]

Also...

If we as a people tend to shun older mechanical systems and gravitate towards supposedly 'smart' systems...how is anyone that wants to... going to learn basic systems and concepts for their own enjoyment, discovery, and selt-sufficiency..??

A well-respected teaching method combines hands-on as well as classroom study...if you remove the hands-on...will you learn..?

Will anybody..?

If it all is allowed to go by the wayside...what will be left to discover..? You will be putting your destiny and well-being in someone elses hands.

 

[XOLATEM]

Plugging in a cheap scanner can tell you exactly what item is malfunctioning without even opening the hood

Not entirely true...it depends on the code you get...
You have ciircuit codes..
you have performance codes...
you have system codes....
and probably others that I am forgetting right at the moment...

In my experience...and many other mechanics...you can have a code...let's say a transmission shift solenoid 'B' code...based on that...mechanic or diy person replaces the solenoid and buttons it up, hoping it is fixed...and has the 'same' problem...no shift..

What went wrong..? the computer system saw a no shift...and merely blamed the solenoid...thus the well-meaning but hapless fixer finds out that electronic systems can tell them a dirty old lie...

Now repeat this with any other component and you find out that you need a comprehensive understanding of the whole system...not just a 'cheap scan tool'

Please don't tell people that all they need is a cheap scan tool...

People will take this 'internet truth' and use it to worry, hound, badger and argue with an honest mechanic that is saddled with fixing this crap...
Saying stuff like that will make it a lot harder for those honorable people that try to make a living fixing stuff for those whiny, demanding, cheapskate, few that tend to make life a lot harder for the many...

 

[Rdnck84_03]

@XOLATEM I do not have the time to relay all of my thoughts on this. But my opinion on this is that between the auto manufacturers and the government, they don't want the common person to be able to work on their own vehicles. The auto dealer service departments would lose huge amounts of money if even 1/4 of auto owners did their own work.

On the government side of things, most of us that know much about auto mechanics realize that most of the common failures on vehicles now are usually in the government mandated systems. Primarily the emissions systems.

James

 

[XOLATEM]

@XOLATEM I do not have the time to relay all of my thoughts on this. But my opinion on this is that between the auto manufacturers and the government, they don't want the common person to be able to work on their own vehicles. The auto dealer service departments would lose huge amounts of money if even 1/4 of auto owners did their own work.

On the government side of things, most of us that know much about auto mechanics realize that most of the common failures on vehicles now are usually in the government mandated systems. Primarily the emissions systems.

James

Glad to hear from you Rdnck84_03...

I agree with you...

Thanks for the validation...

As an aside....did the Canada wildfire dust and smoke find its way to you..?

Well...it did here...and for a few days we had an enormous smoke and haze problem...the worst we have ever seen...

My girl...The Girl...who has travelled extensively...told me that it was on par with what she has seen in New Delhi...and other large metropolitan industrialized asian cities.

The beginning of the emission control stuff was because..(I believe)..Los Angeles had an air quality problem largely because it sat in a valley and there was not a lot of air movement...so...earlier autos with carbureted systems tended to produce unburned hydrocarbons, oxides of nitrogen, CO and CO2...I imagine the problem was universal to an extent with other large cities...and the stuff would make your eyes water and make breathing difficult.

There was a time in Tokyo where you could buy air in a box like a phone booth..

Anyway...I gotta get to work..

Have a good day, Y'all..

 

[Black dawg]

Another thing...all of the technology that supposedly makes vehicles better, safer, and longer lasting has the opposite effect with road safety...just drive on a highway at most any time and you will see people acting like they are invincible and driving like insane lunatics...

Most anyone that has been on the major highways will attest to the truth of that assertion...I am sure you have...

Have you ever witnessed what happens when you have a kid and 'give' them 'everything..'?...they don't appreciate ANYTHING...because they come to 'expect' 'everything' since they 'get' it so easily...and as a result they become ever so progressively DEMANDING.

It is a logical conclusion that just having airbags reduces a driver's anxiety about having a collision...and in turn they will drive more aggressively...endangering other innocent fellow travellers.

And this is supposed to be 'progress'?

Respectfully submitted...

An old mechanic...

I do see that with modern cars and trucks being capable of doing just about anything people can imagine to do with them, especially diesel pickups (any trailer, any hill, as fast as you want to go) causing people to maybe not realize what they are really doing.......But I think this is a bigger problem with society as a whole, and this disconnect?? from reality. Just look at the news, or any social media. People can completely ignore reality, all in the name of being part of a culture.

 

[WECSOG]

If I were going to buy a new (1 ton or smaller) truck, I would probably go with the gasoline engine. I doubt the new diesels will last long enough to justify their higher price.

 

[Rdnck84_03]

Please don't tell people that all they need is a cheap scan tool...

@XOLATEM I completely missed this entire post earlier. I 110 percent agree with this entire post, but definitely about the cheapo scanner. Anyone who has ever tried to scan a powerstroke diesel with a normal obd2 scanner will know that even while looking at the check engine light, the scanner will tell you that it isn't on with no codes.

I bought a used snap-on scanner for a steal at $1,200 (new cost with all of the extras i got was around $9500 so i call that a steal) just so I can diagnose my own vehicles.

In my opinion there are good mechanics, and parts changers. With the parts changer, they pull the codes and replace whatever it tells them. If that fixes the problem ok, but normally there is something else causing the sensor to read out of range to begin with. So now they just start replacing stuff until they figure it out, while racking up charges on your bill.

A good mechanic will pull the codes to figure out what is out of range just so they know what parts to further diagnose to find exactly which part is faulty.

Yes there was a little more time in the diagnostics but it will still cost much less than all of the un needed parts and labor for replacing good parts because the scanner didn't call out the part that was actually at fault.

This is kinda my soap box, I could go on for hours on this subject so I will just stop it here.

James

 

[KansasIDI]

If that's the kind of thing I have to do here, then I should find a different forum, I guess. Because I didn't join the forum to provide proof that I'm worthy. I just want to understand more about diesel trucks and what I should look for, and yes, whether I would be better off with a diesel or a gas truck and whether I could get a quality used truck or would need to buy a new truck.

If this is NOT the forum for people like me who are considering a new truck and want to know how reasonable our investment is, then I hope I can find that different forum.

As far as I know, everyone is welcome here. The people here even tolerate me, so they must all be patient individuals if they put up with my dumb ****.

The majority of the activity on this forum is from the '94 and earlier diesel owners. I think I speak for most people here in the fact that we want the least amount of electronics possible to keep the reliability up.

This is true. At least in the Ford section, there is nowhere for the 6.4 and 6.7 diesel trucks to be discussed.

I just want to know what truck to buy that's going to be a good vehicle for my family. That's all. I don't want to join a cult. I just want a good truck is all. Over the years I've joined and belonged to other forums - motorcycle forums, car forums - and there were always people willing to help someone with what that person needed.

We are willing to help with what we can, but most of us here don’t have new trucks and as a result don’t have much to tell you.

You said you are erring more towards a dually. I highly recommend diesel then. If you’re gonna have a big truck designed for towing, then you’ll want an engine designed likewise.

At my work we have new and late model Cummins. They are fairly reliable. Emissions systems might give you fits past 200,000 miles, but the rest of the motor will do fine past 300,000. We had a couple Hemis in the past, they never lasted past 180,000 before something had gone wrong internally. But Hemis are a subpar gas motor in my opinion, I think they are better suited for muscle cars and midsize SUVs.

Even Dodge’s new auto trans will hold well past 300,000. Heavy towing doesn’t seem to hurt. Feed truck duty will kill trannies and transfer cases in a hurry, the 2011 farm feed truck needs one or the other every 60,000 or so. We have a couple of trucks at work that are ‘11 Cummins with auto, they hold up just fine.

IMO, these high output Cummins and Powerstrokes don’t seem like they could last as long, too much power. Unless they really got it figured out, but a little diesel with 1200 lb ft seems ******* everything. We have one new High Output Cummins at work, pulls great, 50,000 lbs no problem. Gets ~ 2.5-3 mpg towing, and 8 empty. It loves fuel but makes power. Doesn’t have too many miles on it yet, 160,000 with no issues. Time will tell, but I have a hard time believing it will last just as long.

 

[KansasIDI]

And thank you to all who served for our country

 

[ISPKI]

TBH, I use a little bluetooth scanner and my cell phone 95% of the time for vehicles where it works, which is most of them. Been using them for years to start investigating an issue and they have yet to lead me astray. Ive had a modis for over a decade but it rarely comes out because I rarely need it. The scanner and apps ive been using have proven to be accurate enough for me to diagnose the issue and I imagine anyone worthy enough to charge someone for automotive work should be capable of doing the same (although I realize this is not the case). I also have a VIDA system for working on the Volvo and I have to say, their system is hands down the best troubleshooting system I have seen, just a bummer they dont make it available to just anyone and that other companies dont use something similar.

These new diesels are built so heavy duty and to such an expensive level that I wonder how many people buy them privately. I cant imagine someone other than a business buying one and I would assume a business would pile the miles on alot faster than most people just wanting it for a pickup.

 

[Rdnck84_03]

@ISPKI I agree that a generic obd2 scanner is very handy on most vehicles (I still have a couple of corded ones) they wont do anything on a 7.3 powerstroke. I tried the bluetooth also but couldn't find an app that would link to the powerstroke either.

I haven't tried a generic obd2 on any of the newer diesels to know if they still require a high end scanner or not. As I have said in other posts I am by no means a "certified" mechanic. When I bought my first 7.3 superduty i knew nothing about computerized diesels. Dealership charged me over 1k to run a full diagnostic and tell me I had a bad icp sensor and bad idm, then another $1,200 to buy the parts so I could install them myself. Now i do 100% of my own mechanic work.

James

 

[ISPKI]

Thats interesting, the scanner I have works at least on the 99-01 PSDs, never tried on the OBS models though. Did the first gens ever go to OBD2 or were they OBD1 until the body change in 99?

Ive used a generic scanner for the 6.0, 6.4, and 6.7 and it has worked. Only time I run into issues sometimes is with euro cars but japanese and domestics it does a good job.

Its been a long time since I paid someone else to do work on my vehicles since I got my own shop some 7 years ago. Now I sometimes pay people to give me a hand with bigger jobs so I can move them on through quicker.

A benefit we have now is that we have a sort of hindsight with vehicles. We can see how it was done 20, 30, 40+ years ago and we can clearly see how that work has held up over the years. Sometimes it holds up great but the way alot of things were done on older vehicles is now proven to be a terrible idea that doesnt stand the test of time. Electronics were an absolutely nightmare across the board right up until the early 2000s when companies unanimously moved over and invested in modernized electrical systems. Back in the 80s and 90s, when electrical systems were still fairly new (think, ECMs, digital ignition modules, etc) everything was a steaming pile of junk that had tons of issues and limitations only to be on par with old mechanical systems. I cut my mechanic teeth on vehicles from the 80s and nostalgia aside, I never want to touch that junk again.

I say this while being mid hot rod project swapping a ford 302 into this 77 datsun.

 

[Rdnck84_03]

They went to the obd2 with the introduction of the powerstroke in mid 94. The gas engines were a little behind on the transition. I had a 2-94s and a 95 that still had the obd1 system, not sure when they actually switched over.

I really wish my generic scanner would do anything on my powerstrokes, I currently have 2- 97s , 2- late 99s and a 00. When I try to scan one of them with the cel on, the generic will say "no codes present, mil off". Same thing the free parts store scans do.Put the modis on it and there can be dozens of codes actually there.

 James

 

[XOLATEM]

I am glad that this subject has been brought up and Y'all are weighing in on it...

Has anyone seen or had experience with wiring problems due to rodents snacking on them..?

I can see this as a problem especially if a vehicle sits unused more than it is run.

Something to consider when the investment cost is high and the return on investment pay back is low...ie...something used for pleasure and not for business.

I cleaned out a lot of rodent nests when I was working on tractors and landscaping equipment...it is not fun to breathe all of that crud.

Had to rewire a few...