Push/Pull PTO cables or Shift Linkages for Brownie

[Diesel JD]

I think we may have discussed this before a couple years back, but now I'm fairly close to pulling the trigger on this project so I'd like to revive the topic. I know RLDSL used rigid shift linkages on his brownie, but he also said it was one of the hardest parts of the setup. On the downside it seems like PTO cables would not yield as positive of a shift as a linkage could. I have a local supplier who can make cables but he wasn't sure if the throw would be enough and they aren't real cheap, on the other hand setting them up would probably be an order of magnitude easier than bending and getting linkages exactly right. Any thoughts on this and whatever I go with, how to get a correct setup? I'm sure there are pros and cons to both. I appreciate any and all input.

 

[Brimmstone]

What you want are called Morse cables. We used them alot when I was building buggies and race cars. Very handy when doing a mid engine buggy to shift the trans as the shifter is now pointing to the rear of the buggy. Summit and jegs both sell them as well as any decent race shop. Here is a set from jegs. They are 12 ft long with a 3 inch stroke. Make your mounting bracket and your shifter bracket and your in like flint. http://www.jegs.com/i/TCI/890/851200/10002/-1

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

A lot of cab-over trucks used cable-linkages, also most rear-engined buses.

I am not a big fan of the cables, but they do work well enough to get the job done.

Rigid brackets are gonna be necessary to hold the gear-box end of the cable-housings in proper position, likewise at the shifter end; fabricating all that seems as much headache as making plain old rigid linkages.


I may be missing something here, as my auxilliary is still laying on a pallet in the corner, but with turn-buckle style adjustments, I can't envision the fabrication of rigid linkages being any big deal.

I didn't get the actual shifter and linkages with my unit; so, I picked up a Hurst shifter at a swap-meet that is adjustable in about a dozen ways and should be sufficient to the task.

 

[Diesel JD]

I got the shift tower and brackets along with my 5831, and also shift linkages but they will probably not fit once I put this thing in. The brownie is going in place of the carrier bearing and the shifter is going to be where a 4X4 shifter would be if I use the shifter that came with it. It is so huge that I find myself wondering how well it will fit in my cab without getting too bad in the way.

 

[RLDSL]

Those ones at Jegs would not be stout enough. You would need industrial cables with a MUCH stouter push rating. Those wimpy little things would just buckle up when you tried to get past the detent lockout springs.

You can feel when you try to push the rods into gear , the check ball and spring setup it has to roll past to get into gear. It's hard enough with rods and with bent rods they like to work their way loose and I have to go inder and tighten the lock nut once in a while. With a cable it's going to have to be a REAL stout cable. Some big trucks have had cable shift setups but they can get real sloppy over time, thats why the rods or pneumatic cylinders are preferable

 

[Diesel JD]

So you think I should use the rigid shift linkages? The shop I'll be working in has a pipe bender, he wasn't sure if it could really bend those linkages or not but I told him you made yours with a HF bender. What kind of material did you use, and what is the procedure for getting them lined up? The guy I'm working with is very smart and an outside the box thinker, and also has a manual for the Spicer stuff including the 5831, so I know he'll be able to help. He usually lets me use the shop and tools and I pay him something for the trouble of having me there but pay him actual labor for when he has to take time to help me out so obviously the more I can do without help the better this will be on my wallet. As I see it the hard part is getting those linkages right and the driveshaft angles. Otherwise just tedious, not hard or precise, getting the 4X4 floor pan and shifter in, mounting the box, resealing the box, rerouting the exhaust and giving it some extra support. I guess mounting the shift tower on my T18 or somewhere else stout won't be real easy either.

 

[lotzagoodstuff]

If you have a pattern or unlimited time, you could certainly bend hard lines, however, if you go to a place that makes real control cables, they can certainly be made stout enough to handle your application. I wouldn't buy the premade versions from Summit or Jegs, go to a truck/hydraulic shop and they can make them to your application.

Good luck whichever way you go.

 

[bghnkinf350]

With regards to mounting it on the T-18, that might be a real good idea. You can make a bracket to bolt the shifter assembly into the existing parking brake set up holes. I got my shift tower off of a med. duty 5 speed that I found laying in the junkyard. The tower was bolted to the trans from the factory. with regards to the shifter, mine took some cutting slightly, bending, then rewelding to clear my leg.

I would stick with the rods for the linkage, as a temporary fix, I used all thread and then welded reinforcements at the bends and any other critical places. It works pretty good for now until I can modify the shift rods I took out of a large truck.

 

[Diesel JD]

Well the thing is I do not have an unlimited amount of time. I'll have a week, maybe a little more to get this done before some people will start getting irritated with me. I figure working on it every evening I should get it done within that time frame provided all the parts are here and I'm not short on funds to buy incidentals. I'm going to make sure both of those are taken care of before I turn the first bolt, plenty money to cover all costs, all parts ordered and here and a plan for the driveshafts. I'm really worried about the shift linkage setup though. If somebody that knows brownies had a problem with it, how will I do with it? I think the guy I'm working with would be skilled enough to bail me out if I get into trouble but he usually wants to go easy on me for labor charges plus has other better paying projects to do with his time so I'd rather do as much as possible on my own. I don't want to use an inferior product though if even the heavy duty shift cables won't do. The ones I had in mind were custom made by a good hydraulic shop, had about 3" of throw, were push/pull capable and cost about 2 times as much as the Jegs stuff.

 

[RLDSL]

I'm not trying to talk you completely out of cables, but if you want to do it, you need to get it done right. You say the guy you were tanking to was talking push pulls at about twice teh cost of teh jeggs jobs, in other words, he was building teh same thing, just custom... Here's a hint If you were really looking at someting stout enough to handle a truck transmission, you would be looking in the $300 or so range...each I looked into this heavily and a figure of around $385 ea sticks in my head for something stout enough to not begin compressing in a very short time. Indistrial cables have 2 ratings on them one for pull and a separate for push which is much less
If youve ever tried to push one of those shift rods back into the tranny you know that they wont go back without a sharp rap from a rather large hammer. It takes a lot of leverage to overcome those springs. THey are there to keep the things from popping out of gear when going over rough roads

When I made the shift rods up I had the factory straight shift rods to start with that were solid bar and I extended them by sleeving them with tubing and that also allowed me to make final adjustments. I used long lengths of wire to rough in the bends same as roughing in an exhaust system
Set a clevis on each end to attach it ( make sure to set teh threaded end for adjustments for both at teh front where you can get to them, unlike I did I goofed and put one of my adjusters at the rear by mistake, makes it a pain to adjust the rod on that one.

I had the truck right there next to the bender so i could fine tune the bends. It was an adventure because not only do you have to route the tubing, but you also have to line the bends and runs to where when it pushes and pulls , it does so in a straight line figuratively speaking.( whatevers is in between, the ends have to line up or it won't push and pull evenly . that puts a crimp in it ) If you can't find my old posts with the pictures of that mess, I can take some more for you

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

If time is of the essence, forget about the shift-linkages for the moment, put your time and thoughts into the physical task of getting the auxilliary mounted under the truck and the necessary jack-shaft and drive-shaft fabrication.

Just concentrate on getting the necessary work accomplished that is absolutely required to get the truck back up and rolling under it's own steam.

You can just place the shifters BY HAND in DIRECT and drive the **** out of it.

Then, you can worry about the shift-linkages at your own convenience.

 

[RLDSL]

If time is of the essence, forget about the shift-linkages for the moment, put your time and thoughts into the physical task of getting the auxilliary mounted under the truck and the necessary jack-shaft and drive-shaft fabrication.

Just concentrate on getting the necessary work accomplished that is absolutely required to get the truck back up and rolling under it's own steam.

You can just place the shifters BY HAND in DIRECT and drive the **** out of it.

Then, you can worry about the shift-linkages at your own convenience.

THat would sure do the trick and give you all the time in teh world to figure it out

 

[haligen]

Why not something like this?
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Linea...eBase&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=GoogleBase

 

[Diesel_brad]

Rigid linkage is the way to go. I have had several dump trucks with linkage and cables. The cables are a PITA, then tend to seize or just be "stiff" to use. The hard linkage gives you a positive feel and never freeze up

 

[The Warden]

Just a thought from outside the box, since most of the talk has been about truck setups...given that you're in Florida, you might try talking to someone at a boat yard. Morse-type cables are very common in the marine world...most often for throttle or transmission controls, although I've seen them used for the helms of small boats also. I don't know what's available that would be stout enough for what you need, but IMHO it'd be worth talking to someone about.

With that said, I think MIDNIGHT RIDER has a good suggestion...get it physically installed now, and worry about the controls later...this way, you have time to decide what exactly you want to do without getting the neighbors too riled up