New user intending to burn WMO WVO and anything else flammable.

Josh Carmack

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Posts
368
Reaction score
2
Location
Ripley, TN
Hello, My name is Josh, and look forward to making connections and sharing information on this board. I'm from West TN, an hour north of Memphis thanks in advance for the nice to meet you's and welcomes!

I have been looking at the alternative fuels market for a couple of years. I have now committed to diesels after seriously playing at the wood-gas market for a while. Luckily I found this website and did a little reading before my big gas hogger bit the dust. I was at the precipice of purchase of a new ride due to to catastrophic transmission failure of my 91 F250 RCLWB 5.8L. When driving the large trucks you either have to have deep pockets or better ideas. I really wanted to go with a gasifier until a discussion with Wayne Keith led me to believe it's not quite as plug and play as it appears in the youtubes. Once I learned that Oil burning leads to a LOT less modifications from stock I decided to go Diesel. On top of that I already knew that diesels tend to run three to four times as long as gas burners.

In the last two weeks I have acquired two Ford 7.3 IDI;

89 F250 5spd RC,LWB,
It will henceforth be referred to as The Little Truck. It is showing every year of its 24 years of life. It was a work truck driven by low paid concrete employees that thought if it cranked and ran, everything must be ok. I bought it running, albeit on 6 -7 cylinders due to blown head gasket. The repairs have commenced on that engine, as I have already removed the heads, and am only waiting on the time to install new gaskets on block. The transmission feels very very sloppy, and is quite worn. Body and interior is horrible and it even came with about 20 or so pounds of dried concrete splashed all over the cab and bed. It's overall fate is unknown as It may not run any smoother with the new gaskets, and they drove it with water in the crankcase from the leaking gasket for over a year. The oil was the consistency of grease due to emulsification everywhere in the engine.

90 F350 4 door long bed.
It will be henceforth referred to as The Big Truck.The big truck I am the proud third owner of with the previous two owners being brothers and both mechanics. It shows very very little of it's 23 years of age, and the ZF5 thats in it is 10 years younger than the truck. Off the dealer's lot the big truck was an auto. The owners knowing that the A4OD was junk from the start converted the truck to 5Spd after the A4OD experienced it's first major failure using all new dealer parts including the new transmission. It was babied, and saw very little hard work, it was mostly driven around saying "Hey look at me I'm a big diesel work truck and can work really hard." without actually ever being made to work really hard. Body is in excellent shape and paint is dull but good. Interior was great except for the dog smell. If i can successfully run WMO it will be my daily driver unless the little truck turns out to run well after repairs.


With the introductions out of the way, I'll commence the purpose of my first post on this board. I am interested in hearing result of people running WMO and WVO without a centrifuge. I intend to purchase one, but until I recover from current purchases I can't. Also the sooner I start burning WVO/WMO the sooner I can purchase the fuge. To get started on WMO/WVO what would you folks suggest I setup as a start without a fuge to help me start saving for said fuge. I'm very mechanically inclined, and can typically build or come up with stuff most people would never dream of, but COST is an obstacle. I'm paying a mortgage, feeding four little girls, paying my wife's car payment, and sending her to school all on less than 30,000 a year.

I have a 275Gal tote, 4 55Gal drums, a 300 gal old style water filter for folks using well water from less than desired aquifers, and two 100Gal steel pressure tanks at my disposal to build my processing/recovery stations with. I intend to use the 100 gal horizontal tank as a sucker setup using engine vacuum to charge the tank. The tank and two drums are already mounted on a little trailer I custom built. I will use the remaining tanks for processing. I had planned to coarse filter using several layers of old pants shirts etc and settle in the 275 gal tote, draw from a tube mounted 4 inches Above the bottom, and use the bottom valve to drain trash from. I will then sock filter into first 55 gal, and then from there run through series through several engine oil filters. From there filter into the last 100 gal pressure tank to fill said vehicle from. Any glaring omissions? Also anyone have bad luck running straight oil? Is it absolutely required to heat oil at engine? I plan to start and shutdown on Diesel.

In the long run I plan on using 50 gallon bed tanks to run both truck from leaving the factory tanks for known good fuel. But will currently use one factory tank for oil.
 

Desertrig

Registered User
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Posts
46
Reaction score
0
I might rather look for used hydraulic fluid, you knowing mechanics and all. I can't speak to idi's on hydraulic but have friends with cummins 12v that run 50/50 with diesel. Centrifuges were running 2-300 and the pumps and motors were really cheap to scavenge (think we used a power steering pump and a swamp cooler motor)3 or 4 years back. I sold it off when I couldn't find a decent supply of wvo. I would also recommend searching online for folks that will sell you filtered wvo in your area, they'll often trade you for very little $ filtered for unfiltered. My buddy that helped set it up and bought the fuge for his idi, definitely had expensive problems by not purging the fuel system on shut down. I wouldn't run unfuge WMO in anything, but my understanding is it cokes the injectors after 2 or 3k miles. Other's will chime in, I'll probably read up some on the board once I straighten out this e4od..... I would have a conversation with one of the pump rebuilders, as I've seen waste oil sited as a reason the rebuild costs are going up.
 

leswhitt

Full Access Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Posts
378
Reaction score
22
Location
Buffalo, NY
Hey Josh, welcome to the board and the world of WMO! :)

Your setup sounds like a good start, mine was similar to that when I ran WMO in my IDI. Searching the site will be your friend, there's several people that talk about their setups, what they'd change, effectiveness, etc. As for running straight oil, I'm a big believer in blending and running about 80% oil and 20% gas because of the ease of a single tank, cold weather performance, etc. I've ran over 25K miles of blended WMO in both IDI's and newer Ford PSD's, and never had a problem with coked injectors, purging the fuel system, etc.

As for not being able to afford a centrifuge, that is a HIGHLY recommended purchase since nothing else really compares. I, like you, didn't buy mine right away but once I saw the difference in processing and fuel quality, it was instantly apparent that I should've bought it sooner. That's easier said than done when you have the funds so I can appreciate your savings strategy.

Since you'll find my setup if you search, I'll keep it brief by saying I had a collection tank, mixing/filtering tank, and a final holding tank and this worked very well for me and my IDI until I picked up my 'fuge.
 

AcIdBuRn02ZTS

Full Access Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2012
Posts
1,052
Reaction score
89
Location
Indiana
I... like you... haven't purchased a fuge yet but its in the works.... they have gotten much cheaper... under $200 from pabiodiesel IIRC... and from what I've read, well worth it.

Currently I filter down to 2 micron and it seems to do OK... I had some coking issues in my 4bt cummins... but it was an easy and cheap fix.

Good luck... post up pics of ur setup once you get going... plenty of helpful and experienced people here to lend a hand.

-Chris
 

Brad S.

Full Access Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Posts
1,603
Reaction score
2
Location
NW IA
Josh,
If I read your post correctly about how your gonna run wmo, if you use your stock fuel system remember this.
If your front tank is wmo fuel & the back tank regular diesel, when you switch from wmo fuel to diesel, you will get
the wmo fuel mixed into the "clean" diesel tank. Over time both tanks could have the same mixture.
 

Speedwrench72

Registered User
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Posts
4
Reaction score
0
Location
Western Washington
I have secured some oil that was spilled in a containment area and pumped out, moter oil, new, no carbon, no water, just a few small rocks and leaves, Imo, that this is perfect oil for blending...my rig is na so I am going to try 30% and 5% rug, will post with more imfo...
 

058hammer

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Posts
68
Reaction score
0
Location
ME
The longer you let the wmo/rug mix settle the better. Don't try to rush it.
 

Josh Carmack

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Posts
368
Reaction score
2
Location
Ripley, TN
7.3 ,, As in won't mix, or shouldn't be mixed? I have never found myself needing to mix them before lol, so I guess you could say that I have little experience. My plan was to process separately, and possibly run separately, but mix as needed.

Brad,, I am aware of that problem, I typically run my tanks dry, so I figure a monthly run dry of the Diesel tank should hopefully keep the mix thin enough to be essentially diesel. Yes, I am also aware that repeated loss of prime on the injector pump can damage it.

I just ordered my 55GPH fuge a few minutes ago from PA Diesel Going to attempt to run it from a pressure tank, if that fails, then a power steering pump, and then last resort is to purchase the pump they sell. I also picked up three filters and housings today. WIX PN's 24001 with filter WIX 24347
 

Brad S.

Full Access Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Posts
1,603
Reaction score
2
Location
NW IA
I may have missed this in your description of the setup, make sure you have a water filter or filter element.
It sounds like you've got all the bases covered.
 

AcIdBuRn02ZTS

Full Access Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2012
Posts
1,052
Reaction score
89
Location
Indiana
7.3 ,, As in won't mix, or shouldn't be mixed? I have never found myself needing to mix them before lol, so I guess you could say that I have little experience. My plan was to process separately, and possibly run separately, but mix as needed.

Brad,, I am aware of that problem, I typically run my tanks dry, so I figure a monthly run dry of the Diesel tank should hopefully keep the mix thin enough to be essentially diesel. Yes, I am also aware that repeated loss of prime on the injector pump can damage it.

I just ordered my 55GPH fuge a few minutes ago from PA Diesel Going to attempt to run it from a pressure tank, if that fails, then a power steering pump, and then last resort is to purchase the pump they sell. I also picked up three filters and housings today. WIX PN's 24001 with filter WIX 24347

Veg Oil and WMO don't mix period. Well.. actually they do but its not pretty... they gel when mixed and turn into a nasty wax/gelish liquid... not pretty and not something you want in your fuel tank or any of your barrels...

I suggest picking a fuel and sticking with it... either veg or wmo

Good luck man
-Chris
 

gearhead

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Posts
143
Reaction score
1
Location
Lewiston/ID/USA
Just to nitpick technically you can run a diesel on anything that is COMBUSTIBLE but not FLAMMABLE.There is a slight difference.On a gasoline engine even at high speeds a "flame front" travels throughout the cylinder.Even high engine speeds the actual chemical reaction is quite slow.However what happens in a diesel engine is more like a hand grenade going off in the cylinder.The actual chemical reaction is very fast and very violent.

With that being said welcome to the forum,and has been said earlier DO NOT MIX ENGINE OIL WITH VEGGY OIL.It forms an emulsified sludge that will plug up lines and filters VERY quick.For that matter if you have a high percentage of engine oil in your tank avoid diesel that has a lot of biodiesel (20% +) because it will do the same thing.If the pump only says "contains X% biodiodiesel" find another pump if its higher than 20%.Your good if the pump says "contains UP TO X% biodiesel" assuming that its a small percentage.It is WAY better to pay a few more cents for diesel that doesn't have bio-D in it than to pay $$$ to clean out and replace lines,filters,IP's,injectors,etc..
 

Josh Carmack

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Posts
368
Reaction score
2
Location
Ripley, TN
Lol, I can appreciate the nitpicking, as I typically try to use the correct terminology for most anything I talk about, and am also a stickler for details, and am aware of the difference in combustible, vs flammable, but a flammable liquid can be cut so to say with something combustible to cool it off so to say. Thats what I was inferring.

Years and years back hauling tomatoes in a older f350, 6.9 i think, my dad in his weariness most likely filled one tank with gasoline, as a few hours after leaving the filling station, he switched tanks to be shortly greeted by the awfullest noise I can remember a diesel ever making. He swears up and down that the filling station incorrectly filled their tanks with gasoline, but it never occurred to him how he managed to get the "mix" in only one tank. We wound up draining the tank right there on the side of the interstate, and then a Texas state trooper gave us a ride to a station with diesel and helped us get a jug and bring it back to the truck. Ahh fond memories of the days when we still farmed. Bet you won't get a trooper to do that today, well maybe in Texas, but most other no.

As a continuance to this thread, I now have over 1000 miles on WMO, and have now secured a source for veggie oil for free, thinking of trading it out with someone who runs veggy around here. I have noticed no problems so far, aside from harder starting, I am mixing about 10 - 15% RUG, have non functioning glow plugs due to laziness. Only thing I can tell is the WMO/RUG smokes grey vs black, and starts harder. If I had functioning glow plugs I don't think I would notice a difference. Saving up for a single pass centrifuge, I don't really like the bypass system I am currently using.

I can say, the for me, gasoline is an absolute requirement, not for running, but for cleaning. I was amazed at the difference in the amount of gunk that came out of the SAME oil after adding gasoline.

My current hobbled together setup is settle on the trailer, pump from the top of it. Mix rug and settle some more in a 55 gal drum. Pump from there into my open top fuge drum. Heat with 3000 watts of water heater elements and start fuging when it's hot to the touch. I run 6 to 10 hours on 55 gals, and pull all but the last inch or so out. I pump directly from the fuge drum into the truck through 3 series, 10 mic filters.
 

leswhitt

Full Access Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Posts
378
Reaction score
22
Location
Buffalo, NY
Saving up for a single pass centrifuge, I don't really like the bypass system I am currently using.

Are you able to turn down your pump so that you don't have to use the bypass? I have a PA Biodiesel 'fuge and can adjust my pump so that oil doesn't flow through the bypass and 100% of my oil has to pass through the fuge. If you can make the same adjustment, you'll save some $$$ over buying another centrifuge.
 

subway

be nice to the admin :D
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Posts
6,542
Reaction score
1,038
Location
York PA
i was just planning on re-routing my bypass to the inlet of my power steering pump to keep it all going through at once.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
91,301
Posts
1,129,947
Members
24,110
Latest member
Lance

Members online

Top