lifter inspection?

[JSVD]

while doing a headgasket, i put in a cam grind. Upon startup I had some minimal valve piston contact.

The lifters looked fine, and were not pumped up when installed.

I have them back out, and when i try to pump them, they don't move at all. Is this normal? No work was done to the lifters. All the lifters were installed in the same location they were removed.

I have a new set of lifters coming, but i need to install these to move the truck to a new spot to work on it.

 

[riotwarrior]

while doing a headgasket, i put in a cam grind. Upon startup I had some minimal valve piston contact.

The lifters looked fine, and were not pumped up when installed.

I have them back out, and when i try to pump them, they don't move at all. Is this normal? No work was done to the lifters. All the lifters were installed in the same location they were removed.

I have a new set of lifters coming, but i need to install these to move the truck to a new spot to work on it.

What cam?

Was any other work done? Heads milled etc?

Is cam straight up...did you photograph the alignment marks for certain in other words could the cam be out a tooth?

MUCH more information required.

 

[typ4]

My cam and it should never touch. Still wondering about this problem.

 

[JSVD]

typ4 cam, and it was all lined up. I have photos and it looked good when we pulled it. No machine work done to heads or block. VR gasket used ... i've done some research and there's a debate if it's thinner or not. The other head is still on the block.

The valve contact was minimal. The push rods all look straight. I'm still trying to get photos up of it... but I also have to move it so I'm busy.

I don't think it was the cam, but it's strange that it was the only new part. Trying to test the lifters... but i don't understand how they would ALL stick up. However I can not pump any of them with my hand and a pushrod.

The only reason we found this issue is the headgasket which was originally leaking leaked again, up a head stud: http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?66452-head-stud-leaking

This truck had a head gasket done in the past. I was assuming it was the driver side (all the bolts were easier to get off... looked like a VR head gasket installed.) But perhaps it was the passenger side (bolts were harder to get off.. possibly no torque wrench?.. gasket looked like a felpro? had the red rubber like felpro gaskets.) Maybe the passenger side head was worked on, machined.. and the felpro gasket is a tiny bit thicker? Again the valves are hardly hitting.

I currently have both the regrind and the original cam. The original cam is back in. I was going to send the grind back to Russ so he could measure/degree it. It's obviously smaller than the original cam.

How easy should it be to pump the lifters by hand?

 

[riotwarrior]

Depth of valve as posted in previous thread is critical. Also check the previous Gasket thickness to the new gasket...just to be sure.

Always a good idea to double then triple check all the measurements.

So all intake and exhaust valves contacted on one side but no idea on other side is this correct?? If so time to compare...don't run engine if the valves are making contact no matter how little it is...any contact what so ever is just too much!

 

[icanfixall]

Those lifters should be easily pushed down with pressure from a hand. Sounds like yours have stuck fully pumped up. These hydraulic lifters are able to compensate for different lifts of the cam. So I'm leaning towards your lifters causing the valve to piston contact.

 

[JSVD]

Depth of valve as posted in previous thread is critical. Also check the previous Gasket thickness to the new gasket...just to be sure.

Always a good idea to double then triple check all the measurements.

So all intake and exhaust valves contacted on one side but no idea on other side is this correct?? If so time to compare...don't run engine if the valves are making contact no matter how little it is...any contact what so ever is just too much!

The gaskets are the same. All the intake and exhaust valves on one side. Unsure of the others. Some hit much more so than others, but none hit very badly. I don't remember all the valve depths.. i do remember checking them when I put it on... i'll check it again. They weren't hitting before however.. so really shouldn't be hitting now.

Those lifters should be easily pushed down with pressure from a hand. Sounds like yours have stuck fully pumped up. These hydraulic lifters are able to compensate for different lifts of the cam. So I'm leaning towards your lifters causing the valve to piston contact.

This was my thought as well. At the moment I need to get this truck running so it will drive out of this barn and up a hill to store it. Then let it sit till I come back out in April.

 

[Black dawg]

I have never seen a good lifter (when full of oil) that could be easily pushed down. Especially with cold oil. Sometimes when the rocker arm is removed the lifter will suck oil into it, and then be fully pumped up when the rocker is bolted back on. sometimes I have had to take the lifter apart to get the oil out, to prevent open valves, and valve to piston contact.

The lifter adjusts to the base circle of the cam, not the lift.

 

[JSVD]

well it is cold here.. I assumed they should bleed down if they were sitting out.

 

[riotwarrior]

well it is cold here.. I assumed they should bleed down if they were sitting out.

NEVER assume in engine assembly...always KNOW!

NOPE thick oil pumped into lifter and cold...won't press down easy at all...takes a while.

 

[JSVD]

I know the lifters bled out last time I took them out... They were out for much longer and dripped a lot of oil. It was also much warmer. I dunked them in oil and primed the system with the starter.

This time they're not as oily... but they haven't been out nearly as long, and it's colder. The truck also didn't run for very long at all.

What should I have done/do when installing used lifters? I checked them for wear and they looked alright.. and gave them all a spin with my thumb

 

[racer30]

They are easy to disassemble and clean.....On a IDI they should be lubed not pumped up....I have pics of my lifters disassembled on my flickr if you want to see them....http://www.flickr.com/photos/racer30/

 

[JSVD]

I just took apart one of the lifters.

There was oil in the lifter, that looked pretty clean. So to me this would mean one of two things: It's cold and the lifters aren't compressing because the fluid is really thick. Or all the lifters are clogged. I'm sceptical of both. I don't really understand how the truck would run at all with all the lifters stuck. And it was running pretty good.

 

[typ4]

How much varnish is in the plunger areas?

 

[JSVD]

varnish as in wear? The inside of the lifters look fine. The outside of the lifters had a bit of wear on them, but also seemed fine.

I cleaned all the rest of the lifters... it is really easy to do. All of them had oil in them, and would not compress. All of them compressed after I cleaned them.

All of this however does not matter... I started to put the motor back together, just to get it up this hill to park it for the winter. When I picked up one of my rocker arm sets I found the thing which holds the set together (not sure of the word) is snapped
So i suppose the valves hit the pistons a bit harder than I thought...

So all in all for anyone reading this... I'm making an uneducated guess and saying my lifters were ALL bad. I don't think it had anything to do with Typ4's cam. So pretty much i'd say any time you have the intake manifold off do a full lifter inspection. I just figured if they ain't broke don't fix them... but that was a mistake.

So now this project which was just a headgasket, cam, and IP will be a full rebuild or swapping a Promar motor in.



edit: So this truck has the old style rocker arms. Apparently they brake easily. Can i swap in one 7.3 arm pair retainer to drive this truck up the hill? What broke is the large retainer between the arms, not the arm itself. I'm thinking that the truck would possibly be fine for a very short drive.. but honestly don't really know.