It's been a while since you guys swonked anyone....

[sign_man]

Super SWONK

I forget the exact term but I think the marketing you are being subjected to is called the "puppy dog sale". It is a method pet stores use. They let you have it for the long weekend and get attached, all the oohhs and ahhhs about the new truck from friends, family, and neighbors. All this is focused on making your decision very emotional.

It is not a game and they are not your friends. You are being purposefully manipulated and lied to. You stated they are selling this truck for $3000 below invoice. How many businesses, other than car dealers, do you know sell things for 3k below cost? THEY PRINT THE STICKERS AT THE DEALERSHIP AND PRINT WHATEVER THEY WANT! A new vehicle loses 60% of its value in 4 years. Just guessing that you have a deal for about 35k. In four years it will be worth 14k. That is a difference of 21k. 21k/(52*4)= $101 PER WEEK in lost value whether it's driven, parked, garaged or not!

I don't want to hear about warranty either. For 21k you could buy another used truck!

Perhaps you are independently wealthy and can afford a 21k hit. If so, buy it and enjoy. Take good care of it because I may buy it from you one day, when it's cheaper!

 

[82fordtruck]

I appreciate your comment - pleas read mine and tell me what you think - I am going in tonight to take it back.

Well - believe it or not - I insisted on a long test drive. He did tell me he wouldn't be there monday, so I could kep it an extra day, so you may be right there. Regardless, my wife and I knew what we wanted before I walked in there.

This truck has all the chassis options, but not the interior options. For the most part, that's the way I wanted it. I do want door locks, but rarely lock the doors, and I can live with that. But he is not selling me soemthing that I do not want. He apperantly can't sell this truck on account of the interior options. He has had it for six months.

He did pressure me into buying it that day, which I didn't like, but I told him no. I have since done my research as to what other people paid, using new chevy forums, and it seems to be within a few hundred of invoice. Sure they made up this number, but the relationship between invoice and what they paid should be there.

Now on to the rest of it. We looked at used trucks. We were going to pay between 15 and 20k for a truck with 75-100k miles on it. That's half the price, but a third or so used up. Add to that the warranty and the fact that we kno the maintenance of the truck, I thought it was worth it. Many many used lots we went to or called were completely sold out of the duramax. I didn't find too many close to me.

I'm not independently wealthy. This is still going to cost what I make in a year, after taxes. It's a LOT of money. But, I am trying to eliminate projects to be at home more. I have been having a hard time finding a few parts, such as the water pump that left me stranded in Wichita last summer, or the bed I can't find this summer. We were going to paint the truck, and repair a few things on it and keep it, but that was getting more and mroe expensive. We were going to have to spend close to 8k on it to do the rear end, fuel system, DMF, and paint it. If I sell it for five and my old Impala for about that, I am halfway there to the new truck, because I didn't spend the money on the paint. Then, I won't have to work on it for two years or so - it'll be under warranty. My wife works two blocks from the dealer.

 

[82fordtruck]

Also - we all know that invoice isn't the same as cost. He flat out told me that he wants to make a thousand on it, and gave me that price.

I don't know what I think of that thousand figure, but I have not negotiated with him yet. I do think it's fair for him to make some money on this thing.

 

[tonkadoctor]

I did a stint as a car salesman at a Chebby dealer for 6 months, very educational to say the least.

Yes there is a difference between "dealer invoice" (the one they make up that says what they have into it...prep, pinstriping, etc... ) and "factory invoice" the real one that actually came with it.

There are also factory to dealer incentives on the backend of the deal that don't show on a factory invoice, especially toward the end of a model year like it is now. This is where the factory tells the dealers that if the can sell off the inventory of say 06 models to make room for the 07 models by a certain date they will pay them say $3000 per car for doing it and often a bonus if they can clear the entire inventory of 06 models.

This truck is also costing him money in interest sitting on the lot taking up space on his floor plan and if he hasn't been able to move it in 6 months you can use that as leverage.

If I were you I'd make him come off the $1000 he's trying to "make" on the deal because he is prolly going to make it on the back end anyways in factory incentives and you will be saving him money by clearing it from his floor plan. Beat them up good on the price on what is a lame duck for them, get yourself a good deal, sit back and enjoy.

Happy hunting!!:draw

 

[sign_man]

As long as you have done your homework

I just wanted to be sure you knew what you were signing up for. I'm not wealthy either, but a few years ago I got a financial advisor, or wealth advisor as he calls himself. It is amazing how much your net worth can grow if you manage it. The deal with the truck is you lose the opportunity cost of all that money that could be invested making a positive cash flow. He advises to buy a vehicle half your annual income. Yes I know that is a lot of humble pie. I've eaten quite a lot of it myself.

As far as the dealership goes, my company services all lighting at a local conglomorate owned by the largest car dealership company in the country, the Ashbury group. In addition to the lighting we put up the giant monkey and make up banners saying "Lowest prices ever". I have been involved with them for about eight years now and have just become so jaded as the way the industry treats the customer.

If your dealer does the same as these guys, they will make thier money when you finance the truck with them. As a test, get him to firm up on a GMAC price then tell him you can get financing from your bank. Watch the reaction. Actually, your best finacier will probably be a credit union.

Typically the dealer makes 25% on the vehicle and the salesman gets 10% of that. Not all salesmen are trying to **** you, but most are. There are some that have been around a long time, but burnout in that industry is very high. The six month figure seems about right.

I like new trucks too. I just wanted to make sure you knew the hit you are preparing to take.

Good luck whether you buy it or not.

Phillip

 

[82fordtruck]

OK - I have a friend at a ford dealer - I called him and will get a quote for leverage. Between the two of those - I should be able to get him down a fari amount, since he ill get more on the back of the deal. He did talk about a payment from the factory that he would split with me ($1400), but that probably isn't what you were talking about.

sign_man - believe it or not, I just had this conversation with my brother in law last night for several hours. He's an accountant that works for a hedge fund, and he handles a lot of that type thing for his boss. I appreciate your comment - you are very right. We are starting to do this now. My wife and I are usually very frugal (no cable, eat out once a month, ect), and are investing very heavily towards retirement. We should have much more than we need in retirement. We actually only use my income. She makes a lot more than I do and we don't use any of her salary, including this pickup purchase. So, this is well south of half our income.

 

[pafixitman]

Mike,
This post will be all over the place, so bear with me. I have been involved with the retail auto industry for 17 years. 3 1/2 selling, the last 13 1/2 working for the largest data management supplier to the retail auto industry in the US. In English, my company supplies the systems and software that help a dealership operate. 45% of all US dealers use our system and in some way (forms, web sites, consulting) we touch 95% of all dealers. My day job is to install and train software for accounting, sales, payroll and finance & insurance.

Invoice is what a dealer pays the factory. This may or may not include regional advertising fees and transportation. The dealer also recieves holdback. Most invoices state the amount with the prefix of HB. Holdback is normally 2 or 3 percent of invoice. It is paid quarterly based on the actual unit sold. A dealer traded vehicle pays holdback to the original dealer, not the one who traded for the vehicle. There are also factory to dealer incentives (do not need to be given to the customer) and factory to consumer incentives. A 2.5% profit is not unreasonable. If he is truely making $1000 over dead cost, and does not have a pack (a $$ amount that is held from commision to the saleman) the salesman is probably making 20 - 30 % commision. Heck, filling the tank will cost him over a hundred!

Good luck.

 

[82fordtruck]

He started at invoice, took off $2000 in rebates, then split the holdback with me. That put me at $2700 below the invoice. Then, when I tried to leave, he went down a little more.

He also filled the tank. Thank you guys, I think I know what I want to offer when I go in. You've all been a big help.

 

[Agnem]

SWONK! There. Now I feel better. Of course, the First National Bank of SWONK will be SWONKING you every month, so my SWONK is inconsequential compared to the serious SWONKING you'll actually be getting.

 

[chris88]

Whats the differnce between a chevy and gmc front end? Theyre both IFS right? Personally I wouldnt want my truck to ride like a car. I want a truck to ride like a truck. Leafs all around is my preference with a solid front axle.

Chris

 

[tonkadoctor]

Whats the differnce between a chevy and gmc front end?

The plastic grill not suspension.

 

[towcat]

Whats the differnce between a chevy and gmc front end? Theyre both IFS right? Personally I wouldnt want my truck to ride like a car. I want a truck to ride like a truck. Leafs all around is my preference with a solid front axle.

Chris

iirc-
the new fords are coil spring fronts.......

 

[82fordtruck]

SWONK! There. Now I feel better. Of course, the First National Bank of SWONK will be SWONKING you every month, so my SWONK is inconsequential compared to the serious SWONKING you'll actually be getting.

very true. This process wasn't too bad unil I saw all those numbers added up. I knew what it was going to be after tax, ect....but it still got me.

Yes, I meant the grille, not the suspension.

Ford uses a coil spring suspension, but they still use the solid front axle. I am a little bit apprehensive about the IFS, but they did it much better than in the old fords with the ttb. It wasn't the truck that sold it, it was the lack of a 6.0. That's it. I do like the duramax though. I had trouble in the rain, the duals kept breaking loose shifting into 2nd or 3rd....

 

[Mikes91]

82,

Good luck with your decision. I loved my old truck, but the cost of getting it to where I wanted it to be was getting prohibitively expensive. I don't know anyone locally who'd help with painting her, she needed new seats to make my wife happy, and a few other things that would have gotten the cost up. To boot, the transmission was never "right" after it went in, and I didn't have another $500+ to ship it to the builder to get fixed right.

There's a point at which you just have to move on. You may not be at that point yet. Payments suck, but sometimes are necessary.

If you DO buy new, DO NOT under ANY circumstance modify the truck with a power adder. Dodge is voiding warranties left and right because folks are chipping the trucks. Not sure about GM and Ford. But why take the chance? You're making BIG payments--the manufacturer OWES you warranty service. Part of the maintenance/repair expense on your Ford will likely be offset by the payment you're making on the new truck. Peace of mind that any major mechanical issue with a new truck will be handled by warranty does, at some point, become important.

Good luck in your decision. Sold my '91 Ford a few weeks ago, and am selling my '01 Impala LS this weekend. That will amount to over 1/3--nearly 1/2--of the cost of my new Ram 3500 already being covered (except for the fact my wife just started college yesterday, the kids started daycare yesterday... etc. etc. etc...!!!)


Mike

 

[chris88]

I know that the new ones are coil. But then again I dont like new trucks. I still like mechanical injection.

Chris