Hard starting when cold

[Paul]

If it's below 35 or so, my truck starts very poorly unless it's plugged in. Is it time to have the glow plugs replaced or could weak batteries be causing the glow plugs to be less effective?

 

[soypwrd]

It could be both a bad starter and/or glow plugs. Ours was remedied quite a bit by replacing the starter. Why not plug it in? Have you checked your compression lately? The judicial use of eyther could help but be very careful not to blow things up. The compression on our F250 is shot but a little wiff of the stuff in the spray can gets her up and running every time.

 

[PowerStroker444]

It could be weak batteries, one or more bad glow plugs or the glow plug relay.

 

[Paul]

Originally posted by soypwrd
Why not plug it in? Have you checked your compression lately?

soypwrd:


I have been plugging it in at home but I'm away from home four days per week with no where to plug in. I have never checked the compression. With just turning over 40k, if there's a compression problem, the warranty would cover that correct?



PowerStroker444:


I first thought that it was the batteries but it fires right up when plugged in and since the batteries don't directly benefit from the block heater I'm most likely looking at a glow plug or glow plug relay problem? Glow plugs and glow plug relays are another warranty covered issue correct?

I have never worked on a diesel but my main concern is that I don't want to violate the warranty coverage and end up with a big repair bill.

 

[PowerStroker444]

Don't rule out the batteries just because it starts when the block heater is plugged in or because it starts when warmed up. A coworker assumed the samething and $300 later for the mechanic, he told him to replace the batteries. Starts perfectly now, cold or hot.
Yes the GP system is coverd under the 100,000 mile/5 year warranty with $100 deductible.

 

[Ggg]

On diesels with glow plugs or intake air heating elements never use either. The hot GP or intake air heater hot element will ignite the either and cause it to explode backwards up the intake. (at you)Or the either will ignite well before TDC and the starter will get forced backwards due to the piston being forced back down the cylinder from the combustion. I do mean to flame anybody, but rather throw out some words of caution based on life experiences. Get your batteries load tested, then get the starter load tested not just a free spin test. What oil grade are you using? How many miles? What kind of maintenance has been done on the engine? A 2001 should have no problems starting, even down to 0*.

 

[Paul]

Originally posted by Ggg
..........
Get your batteries load tested, then get the starter load tested not just a free spin test. What oil grade are you using? How many miles? What kind of maintenance has been done on the engine? A 2001 should have no problems starting, even down to 0*.

Ggg:


I'll have those battery tests done.

Running 15w40 Motorcraft oil.

40333 miles (8K by me)

Dealer replaced Turbo prior to my purchase




PowerStroker444:


I hope it's the glow plugs, (Under warranty) but I'll have the batteries tested too. I have read where they tend to fail rather early compared to other parts.

 

[Ggg]

Well, all seems normal as far as I know. So lets start with making sure we are both on the same page. Please describe in detail what you mean by hard to start. At what temps does the problems start? Does plugging in the block heater help? Why was the turbo replaced? 40k is awful low miles for a turbo to go out.

 

[rvassar]

Originally posted by Ggg
Why was the turbo replaced? 40k is awful low miles for a turbo to go out.

OT but... There was a bunch of turbo pedistals in 01 that had casting defects. Our Excursion has been through two in 60K mi. One for a cracked pedistal, and the second because they didn't fix it right the first time.

I'd start with the simple stuff. Have you cleaned the battery terminals? Are they original batteries? The 2001 OEM batteries are due to start dying right about now.

Rob

 

[Paul]

Originally posted by Ggg
Well, all seems normal as far as I know. So lets start with making sure we are both on the same page. Please describe in detail what you mean by hard to start. At what temps does the problems start? Does plugging in the block heater help? Why was the turbo replaced? 40k is awful low miles for a turbo to go out.

Ggg:


Around 35 degrees is when it starts getting hard to start. Takes about three or four minutes of cycling the glow plugs on and cranking for around 5 seconds max each time. I usually have to cycle 6 times. (Without actually waiting the full two minutes of glowplug activity. Waiting two minutes hasn't helped.) If I plug the block heater in it starts right up with no problem at temps down to 10 so far.

They told me the turbo was replaced because it was 'loud.' The dealer rep said that it checked out OK but because it was louder than normal they went ahead and replaced it under warranty to save problems later. That was at around 31k.



rvassar:

Yes, the batteries are orginal equipment and I did clean the terminals and seal them. My cell phone would kill the battery in my other truck in just a weekend so I assumed that was the problem originally, but I've quit leaving my cell phone on charge when I'm not driving.

Just in case, care to recommend a decent set of batteries?

 

[soypwrd]

Originally posted by Paul
Ggg:
...Just in case, care to recommend a decent set of batteries?

Optima.

 

[rvassar]

Originally posted by soypwrd
Optima.

I'm not sold on Optimas. I almost put a set in my truck, but I just can't justify the cost. They don't quite have enough cranking amps to get away with just one, and they cost so much more that it's not worth it. The Jeep guys love 'em because they can mount them anywhere, in any position, and drag their rigs up sheer rock cliffs with their winches...

I just want something cheap, that will start the engine.

Rob

 

[rvassar]

Originally posted by Paul
rvassar:

Yes, the batteries are orginal equipment and I did clean the terminals and seal them. My cell phone would kill the battery in my other truck in just a weekend so I assumed that was the problem originally, but I've quit leaving my cell phone on charge when I'm not driving.

Just in case, care to recommend a decent set of batteries?

That's some cell phone!

Sounds like your batts don't have much reserve capacity. The plates are sulfated, and they can't take a charge. Before the OEM batts in our PSD Excirsion died, we could run a thermoelectric cooler overnight with no noticeable effect. We left it plugged in for 4 days and forgot about it, and that was the end of the batteries. They wouldn't take a charge after that.

I'd say if your cell phone will kill the batts overnight, you've found your problem. But it could also be your alternator. You may have lost a diode or the regulator is freaking out, and you're no longer getting full charge.

Rob

 

[Ggg]

As was said, due to repeated discharges your batteries might not be able to take a full charge anymore. First have them load tested. Put a volt meter on the output terminal of the alt. and you should see no less then 13.6v while the engine is running at idle. The PSD can have batteries in "pretty good" condition and they will crank the engine over but there is not enough voltage left to fire the IDM. The IDM will not work with voltage less than 9.6v. Do you see any smoke from the exhaust? If so what color? Even with OEM batteries they will only be at worst 2.5 years old, I think that is a premature failure. Check with dealer on warranty. If the batteries load test good then have the GP, and relay checked. If no smoke then the IDM is not firing the injectors, likely due to low voltage. As far as good batteries go, I have had good luck with Motorcraft,Interstate,Optima. Optima are a bit pricey though. A hydrometer test to see if there any bad cells would be a good idea too, but most likely your battery is a sealed unit.

 

[Paul]

Originally posted by Ggg
As was said, due to repeated discharges your batteries might not be able to take a full charge anymore. First have them load tested. Put a volt meter on the output terminal of the alt. and you should see no less then 13.6v while the engine is running at idle. The PSD can have batteries in "pretty good" condition and they will crank the engine over but there is not enough voltage left to fire the IDM. The IDM will not work with voltage less than 9.6v. Do you see any smoke from the exhaust? If so what color? Even with OEM batteries they will only be at worst 2.5 years old, I think that is a premature failure. Check with dealer on warranty. If the batteries load test good then have the GP, and relay checked. If no smoke then the IDM is not firing the injectors, likely due to low voltage. As far as good batteries go, I have had good luck with Motorcraft,Interstate,Optima. Optima are a bit pricey though. A hydrometer test to see if there any bad cells would be a good idea too, but most likely your battery is a sealed unit.

Ggg:


I should have clarified better that my cell phone killed the battery in my old truck so I just assumed that was the case the first time this happened but I haven't left the cell phone on charge since then.

When it's hard to start, white smoke bellows out once it finally starts. Normally it doesn't smoke any that I've noticed but, then again, I haven't followed myself.

I checked out Optima's website, and though I've read about a lot of people running Optima's, their website model calculator concludes that Optima doesn't make a model suitable to the 7.3l Turbo Diesel. Also, as I recall, the yellow top that most seem to be running has 750CCA and the battery I put in my F-150 last year had 950CCA. Seems like a lot to pay for a two year warranty and less CCA than other, more reasonably priced, brands. I agree the Optima batteries are nice looking and it's neat that they can be mounted at any angle but I'll never just sit and look at them nor show them off to people and if the angle they're mounted at is a problem then I'm likely not on all four wheels so...... I think I'll most likely opt for Interstate, if it comes to that, and be paying considerably less than the ~$300 that Optimas would be.



rvassar:

I have noticed in the past that when alternators are bad on ambulances, the voltmeter tends to jump around quite a bit when starting. I am aware that the dash gauges aren't all that accurate but mine is rock steady even when cold starting after it fires up. Our ambulance gauges were all added by our mechanics with instructions to ignore the dash gauges so the comparison may not be relevant.