Hard start then stalls when cold

[tonkadoctor]

OK I missed somewhere the loss of oil in the hpop.
but before I would chase the hpop etc try a lp not gonna hert with the miles.
they are inexpensive and relaively easy to change, just being behind the balancer.
clearance is supposed to be .005 aor around there. the one i did has .024 clearance, It is possible yours is worse.

if i recall corectly the check valve on these is in the hpop.
will check more in the book at the shop./

I'm finding that the check valve drainback problems on the quick fill is on the early PSD now that I have done some more research.

LP pump and / or front cover is my diagnosis too, I'm mostly checking & testing the other stuff to rule out combinations of problems so I know what is working properly and what isn't, doesn't cost me anything but time which I have a lot of.

It's loosing the prime and not building pressure to fill the HPOP resevoir fast enough, worse on a cold start but will do it tooo on a warm start. Time to get it in and pull the LP pump & inspect the front cover.....IIRC the clearance is supposed to be .003 or .005, gotta look it up again..... .024 isn't good at all, that's close to 1/32nd of an inch I'm going to pull the pump and inspect tonight or tomorrow. Gotta charge the camera battery too, I have a bad feeling I'm going to find the front cover chewed up around the gearotor.

BTW, not looking too good when you talk to the Ferd sevice dept. receptionist because the diesel tech isn't there and she knows about the LP pump and front cover wear problems causing hard starting on the PSD

Gotta get my shop cleaned up and get the John Deere toys out of the way and the tools I have scattered from too many projects back in the box. You know you have too many tools when you can work on 4 or 5 projects and still be able to go to the box and get another of the same to work on something else.

Update @ 15:30......Fired it up after it sat about 3 hrs since driving it this morning.... plugged in too with temps around 59F today..... , fired right up and ran really nice for about 30 seconds and died, pulled HPOP resevoir plug and it's bone dry, exactly what I expected too...LPOP is having trouble getting a prime on this warm oil to refill the HPOP resevoir so I'm getting the shop ready to pull it in and pull the LPOP off.

I have witnesses too, right GEO

Was good to see you again, Mike

 

[geonc]

I have witnesses too, right GEO

Whutchutalkin'boutwillis ;p


YUP!....starts right up and flame out after a few secs of smooth idle....pulled the cover plug on HPOP and all but bone dry.......get that front end off and I'll bring my crank pulley puller....reg harmonic pullers ain't big enough

great talkin' to you as well....seems WW and your wife are doin' some conspireing about your kitchen remodel

 

[tonkadoctor]

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great talkin' to you as well....seems WW and your wife are doin' some conspireing about your kitchen remodel

Uh Huh...Discussin winders & cabinets when we ran outside, (I knew that was a bad idea soon as we closed the back door). Already been on the thermastar by pella website looking stuff up & showing it to her........Ain't found out what else dey were talkin about but I'm sure it'll leak out soon enough. Now that they finally met, I'm doomed

Shop's half @$$ed cleared out, tractors & finish mower are moved, heaters checked & tools organized back in the box ready to start the next round of thrash my shop again.

 

[geonc]

Shop's half @$$ed cleared out, tractors & finish mower are moved, heaters checked & tools organized back in the box ready to start the next round of thrash my shop again.

gimme a call...I'm gettin' rode prety hard at work but I can make time

 

[tonkadoctor]

gimme a call...I'm gettin' rode prety hard at work but I can make time

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I know you're big time busy, I'm gonna check out those free rental pullers at Advance & Autozone first, they both just told me they are bigger heavier units than the stuff they keep on the shelf for sale for the average consumer, put her in the truck wit cha and I'll give you a hollar & chase you down if I need it. Thanks

 

[Double-S-Diesel]

im thinkin the balancer is threaded to accept the flat harm balacer puller??
get the lp from ford, it was actaully cheaper from them than the parets store.
it includes the gasket, but ya will need the balancer side seal kit.
watch for rust on the backside of the balancer, had a small piece ruin my last job had to do it twice.
pretty easy jub aside from pullin the fan and radiator.
Nick

 

[tonkadoctor]

im thinkin the balancer is threaded to accept the flat harm balacer puller??
get the lp from ford, it was actaully cheaper from them than the parets store.
it includes the gasket, but ya will need the balancer side seal kit.
watch for rust on the backside of the balancer, had a small piece ruin my last job had to do it twice.
pretty easy jub aside from pullin the fan and radiator.
Nick

You're right about the radiator & fan Nick, whose freaking "BETTER IDEA" was it to use a damn 1 piece fan shroud that you have to pull the fan and shroud at the same time.......That bit hard with my screwed up shoulders etc.... Balancer came off easy with a regular cheap harmonic balancer puller.

Lube oil pump isn't too bad at .007(spec is supposed to be .001 - .003), much better than I was expecting but has some scoring I can't measure as well as a few burrs on it.

However, the front cover has some nasty scores and burrs(pics don't show it too well) so I'm gonna change it.

I won't be getting the LP pum or anything at Ford after being quoted some B.S. prices way above MSRP, Going to the Navistar dealer which is the same distance away...LP pump with cover $63, Timing Cover $258, Front cover gasket set $68......I'll replace the rear main seal, injector O-rings, rebuild the IPR valve and fix the #7 GP while it's out.

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Hey....Ya gotta keep the heat in somehow

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Surprising how much room to work just removing the Fan, Shroud & radiator.....I like being able to use my air tools to take off harmonic dampers

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[geonc]

Balancer came off easy with a regular cheap harmonic balancer puller.



Going to the Navistar dealer which is the same distance away...LP pump with cover $63, Timing Cover $258, Front cover gasket set $68......I'll replace the rear main seal, injector O-rings, rebuild the IPR valve and fix the #7 GP while it's out.

Mine musta not liked me..............

Don't forget the front seal DOES not come in the kit....at least not in the "kit" PSS sold me

If'n ya want I can save ya a 100 mi trip and pick up the parts 'cause I'm in Raleigh every day....call me

So...do I bring the eng stand down

And your right!...it was BONE *** cold yesterday couldn't get a break with that wind

 

[apextrans]

You did say rear main seal. Are you pulling the motor completely out?

 

[Double-S-Diesel]

looking through the repair bible
most common sources of drain back are HPOP hpop resivoir gasket and Lpop
I would try HPOP next if it was me. whole lot easier than pullinthe engine.
Nick

 

[tonkadoctor]

Mine musta not liked me..............

Don't forget the front seal DOES not come in the kit....at least not in the "kit" PSS sold me

If'n ya want I can save ya a 100 mi trip and pick up the parts 'cause I'm in Raleigh every day....call me

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So...do I bring the eng stand down

And your right!...it was BONE *** cold yesterday couldn't get a break with that wind

Nothings really fighting me on the job so far. Got an IH dealer 15 miles from me in Fayettenam so I'm OK there, will double check the contents of the front seal Kit, but probably gonna order a complete lower end kit for it. Yep gonna need the stand in a few days, as slow as I am it's no hurry, I can run up there with the red truck if I get off my butt and get it running again or snag Mama' yota too, my hoist is a 2 ton so I'm OK there.

You did say rear main seal. Are you pulling the motor completely out?

YEP

 

[tonkadoctor]

looking through the repair bible
most common sources of drain back are HPOP hpop resivoir gasket and Lpop
I would try HPOP next if it was me. whole lot easier than pullinthe engine.
Nick

The problem I saw over 2 or 3 days of checking was that the resevoir would go dry after firing, the leakdown did stop after it got to a certain level which was still enough to fire up and run for a bit...LP pump is losing its prime and not filling the resevoir fast enough, this was worse when it was warm the last few times I tried it after driving it and then letting it sit about 3 hrs plugged in to keep it hot.

I wouldn't be surprised right now to find a crack in the pickup tube, bad seal on the pick up tube or find the screen clogged with debris

 

[Double-S-Diesel]

I know it may be a little late in diagnostics
to check for cracked tube
over fill by 3-4 qts and jack rear end up, as far as possible

 

[tonkadoctor]

I know it may be a little late in diagnostics
to check for cracked tube
over fill by 3-4 qts and jack rear end up, as far as possible

YEP, missed that step..DOH ...Oh well, a couple of hail Mary's and out she comes.

 

[tonkadoctor]

GEO, got almost everything ready to pull it, all that I have to do now is pull the hood, unbolt the tranny, oil filter & starter...say a few hail Mary's & give it the heave ho.

Let me know if you can't make it Saturday so I can chase ya down fer the stand. Supposed to be nice tomorrow & sat, might even get it pulled tomorrow so I can break it down on saturday...Shops heated (barely) so it helps some.

BTW... told Mama she needs to feed ya to If ya go hungry here it's your own fault.

Also what flavor liquid lunch do you require so I can get it in the fridge tomorrow

Found a used cover close to me for $100, gonna check it out, also called the machine shop here to see if they could resurface it and they told me to bring the cover down so they could take a look at it.

Lotsa room to work

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