E4OD Heater Hose

[snicklas]

I know this has been discussed before. But I want to confirm 100%

Gary, @icanfixall has talked about the heater hose for the E4OD, and what the purpose is, and the flow is actually very small.

However, we have one that the heater hose is beginning to leak at the output barb on the passenger side head. It appears a PO has replaced the hose from the water pump to the core, and from the location of the tee, (there is a tee there, not sure its the factory one) to the core, and from the tee to the bottom of the radiator. It looks like the tail from the tee to the block was cut at the tee. The tee end is worm screw clamped to the tee, but still has the factory spring clamp at the head. Every other coolant hose clamp on this truck is a worm screw type clamp. So I think the little tail is the 1992, 205,000 mile hose...

What I want to confirm is:

Can the hose to the bottom of the radiator be completely removed. 1 hose head to core, 1 hose core to water pump, no tee.

Does the port in the radiator need to be capped in some way to prevent a leak, or is the only fluid present at that connector, from the hose?

I know all that hose is for is to accelerate the heating of the transmission fluid in the cold......

 

[BR3]

Gary is right the hole is literally a pin hole no larger than 1/8 inch in a 3/8 brass fitting. The problem is that the fitting is not a standard pipe thread. and you definitely need to cap it as it is a 3/8 hole in the bottom radiator tank. It works to preheat the tranny by simply dumping a small amount of hot coolant back into the already cooled coolant where the tranny loop is.

Yes it can certainly be completely be eliminated if you are willing to go without the pre heat of the tranny. (Not gonna try to sway you weather or not that's a good idea, it's been beat to death) The flow is so small traditionally that none of the other parts of they system will care in the slightest. Mine in fact had been blocked off for years where a p.o. had tried some stop leak and the tiny orifice caught the stopping agent. Didn't know till I redid my system



The problem I foresee though is I don't know how you'd cap it without some type of rigging or soldering of the fitting, because as I said I found out the hard way (cross threaded an npt fitting into a $400 mishimoto radiator) that it was not an npt fitting........

 

[no mufflers]

when I first pulled the motor in my truck that hose completely plugged with debris, so I doubt it was even doing anything. I no longer use the trans cooler in the rad. I have two separate coolers for the trans fluid, so that pre heat function is non existent. I don't notice any negative affects. the only thing is the trans will generally run cooler then the motor, but will take longer to warm up.

 

[Fixnstuff]

My 87 F250 has a C-6 transmission but I have a replacement radiator taken from a newer truck with an E40D. To block off that heater hose fitting to the lower radiator tank I used a very short piece of heater hose (I think it was 5/8 inch) clamping one end to the fitting on the radiator and the other end around a short 5/8 inch diameter bolt as a plug.

I would NOT recommend this if you have an E4OD Transmission!

As implied in a previous comment, it helps to more quickly bring the transmission up to a safe operating temperature. Automotive engineers determined that this was necessary for the E4OD.

More (heated) fluid flows through that little hole than has been implied in the comments thus far, especially when it's under pressure. Also notice that it is next to the transmission return line fitting so that heated fluid is going to provide significant heat exchange to the cold fluid going back to the transmission

From a different perspective: In terms of this feature adequately preheating the transmission fluid through the heat exchanger in the lower radiator tank - to prevent damage to the transmission I certainly would not second guess or over-rule the science, engineering and testing that determined that this was necessary for the E4OD - and that the size of that little hole was determined to be adequate to achieve the desired result.

ESPECIALLY considering colder climate zones!

I'm not an automatic transmission technician (re-builder) nor an engineer or scientist but I have at least a technician level background in some related fields and I'm fascinated with trying to solve any technical problem. I very much tend to trust the engineers who determined that this was necessary for the E4OD, at least the early E4OD.

It appears to me to be a patch that was added in after they learned that there might be a problem with the E4OD transmission fluid reaching safe operating temperature quick enough.

In a very hot climate it probably won't hurt anything under normal conditions and possibly you might not need it. I'm not qualified to make that judgement. If you are working a trunk in a hot climate and high transmission temperatures and engine overheating are issues, then you have a balancing situation to deal with and plugging that line might be a benefit along with other measures like using synthetic transmission fluid, auxiliary coolers, bigger radiators, a fan system that moves more air or other innovative methods of cooling things down.

Written and posted after being up all night with bad insomnia - which is why my comment is so long.

 

[Fixnstuff]

when I first pulled the motor in my truck that hose completely plugged with debris, so I doubt it was even doing anything. I no longer use the trans cooler in the rad. I have two separate coolers for the trans fluid, so that pre heat function is non existent. I don't notice any negative affects. the only thing is the trans will generally run cooler then the motor, but will take longer to warm up.

Like I wrote in my previous post, I'm not an automatic transmission tech. but it's my understanding that starting out and driving the tuck while the transmission is cold is not good for the transmission. I assume that means: premature wear or damage of some sort will result. If my truck had an E4OD I would be afraid to delete that line, especially in a colder climate and especially with extra auxiliary transmission cooling. I'm sure that the engineers put it there for a good reason.

I've been concerned about my C-6 reaching safe operating temperatures since I replaced the stock auxiliary transmission cooler with a significantly larger and more efficient fin & plate cooler (for towing in hot climates). However, the perception that I have gained is that the C-6 will heat up to operating temperature much quicker than an E4OD.

MAYBE for the later E4ODs and those that are rebuilt with stronger 4R100 parts, this might not be as much of an issue but I don't *know* that. I'm only speculating.

 

[no mufflers]

interesting post....

I guess the engineer also designed the hole the perfect size for any amount of coolant debris to get stuck in it and prevent it from working.

 

[BR3]

I have to say, finding the "engineering" faultless or calling it science is a bit overkill. We are talking about the same company that said a human life was worth $138k in a lawsuit when pintos started blowing and then "engineered" the solution of coating a bolt....... I can set up a test in my garage for under $20 that would disprove the theory that the amount of flow going over that coil is substantial with the same port,a small pump and a bucket to catch how much water flows through, and probably match the " engineering" of the late 80s when it was done.

Now the reason I said in my initial post that I wasn't going to try to debate weather or not it mattered and just answer the op's question is because there are people that have had the preheat circuit bypassed on rigs as long as I have been alive, to no ill effect. If a stock tranny can't go over 150k, and it still does that with no preheat circuit, I think the point is clear in my opinion what the actual truth is

 

[icanfixall]

So this has grown into a good topic..... HMMMM.Lets start by saying this line is not really a required item. Even though it was engineered to provide "something" about quicker trans warmups I see this as not sufficient in any way. Knowing our glow plugs are to be turned on and allowed to heat up tells me this is correct because I tried to quick start plugs that have not pre heated all the way when the wait light finally goes out. Now lets talk about the design of the 7.3 fuel heater.... This forum found out the design is flawed. The heating element in on TOP of the fluid we are trying to heat up so it wont work. Add to this the engineeres forgot to include the design of turn on the ignition but not start. Wait 7 minutes for the fuel to warm up. then stART THE ENGINE... wELL AAFTER ABOUT 1 MINUTE THE GLOW PLUG CONTROLLER STOPS WORKING AS A SAFE MODE. oTHERWISE THE PLUGS WILL BURN OUT IN THE LONG WAIT TIME FOR THE HEATER TO WARM UP THE FUEL. i BET MY LIFE NOT ONE OWNER ACTUALLY KNOWS OR WILL WARM UP THE FUEL THIS WAY.eNGINEERS.. gOTTA LOVE THEM OR HATE THEM.. FINALLY NOT MANY REALIZE THE FLOW IS FROM THE HEAD TO THE CAB HEATER. THEN BACK TO THE WATER PUMP AND BOTTOM OF THE RADIATOR. mOSTLY NOTED IS THE BRASS FITTING IN THE PASSENGER HEAD HAS AN ORIFICE RESTRICTING THE FLOW TO THE HEATER CORE. iT ALSO IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE SO DON'T TRY CHECKING THIS AND PURCHASING ONE.. YOU MAY GET LUCKY AT iNTERNATIONAL FOR THIS FITTING BUT i'M NOT REALLY SURE. Once again my fat firggen fingers have touched the caps key.. I am not yelling.Sadly I do not know how to remove all the caps with one key stroke...
Just do it. Forget about the warm upline. You wont be sorry and the trans will not know it either.

 

[snicklas]

Thank you Gary. I will replace the hoses to and from the heater and plug the tank.

 

[kuskoal]

Nothing will happen if you delete or keep the hose. It helps with cold starts to get the fluid hotter quicker. Got it.

The idea behind it is the lack of a self-warming feature of the idi controlled e4od. Psd trucks unlock the torque converter until it reaches operating temp. Easy to code if you already have an electronic engine.

Besides... It really isn't going to be a help at all since a cold engine is idling producing little egt, spinning a cold transmission that's just pressurizing and dumping cold fluid at idle. Once you get it rolling, it's a moot point. Unless you got really extended idle times it will be of use.

 

[icanfixall]

Last time I talked with Ford (many years ago) they still make this three way hose. Back then it was well over 100 bucks. Thats a waste of 100 bucks we can spend on other more important items..

 

[trackspeeder]

Nothing will happen if you delete or keep the hose. It helps with cold starts to get the fluid hotter quicker. Got it.

The idea behind it is the lack of a self-warming feature of the idi controlled e4od. Psd trucks unlock the torque converter until it reaches operating temp. Easy to code if you already have an electronic engine.

Besides... It really isn't going to be a help at all since a cold engine is idling producing little egt, spinning a cold transmission that's just pressurizing and dumping cold fluid at idle. Once you get it rolling, it's a moot point. Unless you got really extended idle times it will be of use.

The E4OD run with the converter unlocked until operating temp is reached. This is a basic function for all E4/4R100 units. The tranny will warm up with the engine idling, just not quickly. Once the converter starts spinning it will create heat.

 

[kuskoal]

So it's even more of a moot point? Ford was doing work on the Arctic condition diesels back in the day! It's been 2 years or so since I drove the rig, most of it was in San Diego, so I didn't think the TQ unlocks at cruise to warm it up. Good info!