Disc brake dually

[LCAM-01XA]

I know that First brake apply is almost full pressure, second is half, third you're just about done, fourth apply it's Hulk time. But that exactly was my point, there's a area that the vacuum has advantage over the hydro... Assuming the vehicle owner considered it important enough.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

this is why we need to show a working emergency brake working every year to pass safety inspection here in Maine.if it wont hold the truck.....fail.
the problem is with the f450's driveline brake it works awesome as a parking brake but will just go up in smoke as an emergency brake.......of course it's still got to be there even though it wont help lmao.too bad too,cus id ditch it in a heartbeat for a bw1356 t-case to have some crawling gears.need to rig up a divorced t-case i suppose.ah well.getting off topic now.the f350's emergency brake doesn't work a whole lot better but at least it's something to help slow ya down gradually along with downshifting.i guess it's all a bit better than just using a telephone pole to stop ya.
our brake lines are inspected every year too.if any rust.....fail.ya still got wheel cylinders and other things that could go bad,but ya look after and maintain what ya can.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

don't ya find it interesting (or absurdly dangerous is more like it) that a driveline brake is incapable of stopping the weight of an f-450 and yet the master cylinder reservoir isn't separated from front to rear like on some pickups,so that you loose all hydraulic brakes in the event of a leak? i mean what the hell kinda planning was this anyway? lol.

 

[riotwarrior]

I know that First brake apply is almost full pressure, second is half, third you're just about done, fourth apply it's Hulk time. But that exactly was my point, there's a area that the vacuum has advantage over the hydro... Assuming the vehicle owner considered it important enough.

Let me see now...vacuum pumps and booster and lines never fail right?

Advantage...none

All things being equal they both have mechanical parts along with hoses and pumps and stuff that can and do fail.

Advantage...hydroboost for better braking....

Nuff said

No go lick yer wounds

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

lmao! well there.

im waiting for the youtube vid of locked up wheels @ 11k gross.You wait Al,they're gunna show us on snow packed/ice roads.

 

[fsmyth]

If it wasn't so rough on the tires, and a bit scary to boot, I would make you a video.
Let's see: trailer - 3.5k, dozer - 7.5k, truck - 5k?...
On dry concrete parking lot. Won't lock up on asphalt, unless it's wet.
I usually move the dozer as far forward as possible. Then it stops.
And try hard not to use that trailer. Brakes are vacuum over hydraulic. No hookup on truck.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Let me see now...vacuum pumps and booster and lines never fail right?

Advantage...none

Vacuum pumps can fail bu usually you get a forewarning, if you cared to install a simple vacuum gauge in one of the conveniently-provided extra ports on the vacuum tree. Do that with the PS pump Also that's the point if how easy it is to add a vacuum reservoir, as opposed to nothing readily available for hydroboost. And I take it as you've never had the joys of a reasonably new PS line springing a good-size leak while a thousand miles from home in the middle of practically nowhere? Must be nice! Running the two single most important control systems of a vehicle off a single power source (the PS pump) is not an advantage anywhere you look at it, regardless of how good the system works while it works it's still flawed by design.

don't ya find it interesting (or absurdly dangerous is more like it) that a driveline brake is incapable of stopping the weight of an f-450 and yet the master cylinder reservoir isn't separated from front to rear like on some pickups,so that you loose all hydraulic brakes in the event of a leak? i mean what the hell kinda planning was this anyway? lol.

Uhm, yeah, the reservoir IS separated, the divider is under the float for the brake fluid level sensor, it only separates the bottom half of the reservoir but that's enough to keep one of your brake ciruits operating properly even if the other one goes ****. Which is the way things have been for, oh idk, a hole quarter of a century now?

 

[G. Mann]

About a year ago, I blew the bottom seal out of the power steering box on the hydroboost F450, in rush hour traffic.. loaded [the truck, not me] and lost steering and brakes in the course of ONE stop, along with all the power steering fluid.

Interesting.... doesn't quite describe it... The trans mounted E brake really doesn't cut it for driving in traffic.. or for stopping.

FWIW.... in case you have it happen.. AAA does NOT tow or cover 1 ton vehicles unless you have the extra expensive plan.. [I have that now].

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

Uhm, yeah, the reservoir IS separated, the divider is under the float for the brake fluid level sensor, it only separates the bottom half of the reservoir but that's enough to keep one of your brake ciruits operating properly even if the other one goes ****. Which is the way things have been for, oh idk, a hole quarter of a century now?

oh wow no kidding? ok i didn't know this.well that sure is good! can ya look right in the res and see the divider sticking halfway up when it's empty? i dunno how i missed this.

 

[riotwarrior]

Ok so put a vacuum guage on and notice low suck.

How abput that steering pump whining.........and harder to turn.

Yup Very true

Catastrophic sudden failures ONLY happen to power steering pumps and lines.

Never do brale lines fail

Never do engines fail..

Never do tyres fail

Never do brakes fail...

Never do cooling systems fail.

Nope just yer freakin steering pump hoses and hydroboost.

A D V A N T A G E...

NONE....

Except to hydroboost for better safer braking.

A vehicle is a combined product of a multitude of zystems engineered to work together in harmony.

Sometimes one or morr of these are tied together and ca fail.

Get real and quit with the but....But....BUT's....

You could have a siezure too or heart attack while driving....but....

JM7.3CW

When trying to provide an option....

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Aight, then by all means, oh great one, please enlighten us how any of the items you listed up there relates to the vacuum vs. hydro discussion?

Btw that bold statement about systems working together in harmony - yes, absolutely, because the hydro and that damn 1-5/16" master were meant to work exactly with them puny rear wheel cylinders!!! Hypocritical much?

So yeah, the vacuum system DOES have the advantage of being able to easily monitor it and increase the factory's safety margin. The hydro may have other advantages, but this one goes to the vacuum setup. Is it an important one, well maybe not to you, but to someone else it may be worth quite a bit...

 

[towcat]

that's enough.
ease up guys.

 

[riotwarrior]

that's enough.
ease up guys.

But....

 

[LCAM-01XA]

that's enough.
ease up guys.

10-4

Btw there was something I wanted to get your professional opinion on... Heck if I remember what that was tho, therefore I bet it must have been important . I'll shoot ya a PM whenver or if ever it comes back to me.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

lol you guys.

well from my personal experience, the difference when working the truck was so drastic.
i can't argue or claim to know what may or not be better in any given situation but this is my first hand experience between the two:

chip truck started out with bad brakes.i bought it with very low miles.under 50k miles.the truck had been used for plowing.so with plowing and sitting the brake system had to all be replaced.when i say all,i mean all.you name it on the brake system and i replaced it.save for the ABS.that,i bypassed.everything else,new.
so i added some rear leafs and a dump bed and i could haul a nice load.i mean a couple ton with ease.the problem was the brakes just turned to mush when loaded up heavy and if i forgot about a road to take and didn't slow down for it,forget it.i just had to slow down and plan on turning around and going back.there was no quick stopping the truck.

then i almost hit a car in traffic.that was it.i had read about the hydro swap from Dave S on FTE (a mod there at the time,who was another heavy hauler with his truck) so i knew just what i had to do.so i ordered up the parts and did the swap.
once i swapped to hydroboost (i used the trucks master and the trucks pedal,not knowing better at the time) my truck all the sudden felt like it was made for hauling heavy.i could stop the truck in a very quick and safe manner with a full load on.in was such a drastic difference the whole truck felt totally transformed.i can't even begin to explain how much safer my truck became that day.now Dave S had shared his stories with the increased stopping power so i expected just what i got but i didn't really know it would be as a drastic difference as it was.im completely beyond impressed with the hydroboost brakes.
better or worse in some cases.might be.all i know is my truck is extremely more safe than it ever was with vacuum brakes.there is so much more stopping power with the truck now,that i honestly think comparing the system to vacuum is just insulting to the hydroboost lmao.seriously this is my story and im sticking to it.hopefully it helps someone else before they get into an accident too.


side note;
this thread is the first of its kind iv ever read.iv never seen claims of vac having any such upper hand over hydro before.im intrigued but i can tell you one things for sure.i wont be swapping to vacuum on the f250 or f450 anytime soon.