Broken down on the side of the road.....

[crazy4wdracer]

Yesterday evening I was taking my truck for a spin. I drove around for probably 40 miles no problems whatsoever. I was heading back home and was accelerating shifting through the gears, the truck shut off. I tried to start it back up but it wasn't even trying to start so I figured to not kill the batteries. It almost seems like it ran out of fuel but I just filled up the front tank not long ago. I installed a used radiator last night as well right before I broke down. This definitely seems like a fuel issue or wiring issue.

My truck has a manual IP switch if that makes sense....and also manual glow plugs.


Stuff I'm thinking of right off the bat: fuel filter, adding more fuel to the tank, lift pump??? There is probably air intrusion but I can't deal with that too much on the side of the road...

 

[burtcheca]

Is the fuel gauge not working?

Were you just guessing about amount of fuel in tank?

If that's the case there's a big chance you just run out of diesel and the lines are dry. Some engines are harder than others to start in that condition. It has happened to me a couple of times in my old truck. I take the fuel filter out, fill it with diesel put it back, remove the air filter, put a little amount of ether in the intake (just a little) and crank. It takes a little more time than usual but it will start. At least I can do it with my truck without having to purge any lines.

You can try this, maybe it works with your engine.

Oh, and as a precaution until you fix the fuel gauge, have with you always a 5 gallon plastic diesel container filled in your truck.

I hope this will help you.

Burt.

 

[crazy4wdracer]

My fuel gauge doesn't really work right. I filled it up a while ago but haven't really driven it much since. It's very possible that I'm out of fuel though. Thanks for the help, I'm going to keep a 5 gallon container of fuel in my truck toolbox from now on. And it doesn't help that I don't have a rear fuel tank.

Anyone else have suggestions if it's something other than this?

 

[Goofyexponent]

I gotta ask...how many miles on your pump and injectors? I am crossing my fingers that the pump isn't shot. Before it died, did it surge...like get a seat of your pants amount of horsepower then die out? Do you have a water separator? The caps on your injectors, are they clean and dry or damp with fuel? Might be time for new caps and O rings.

Are you getting white smoke while cranking? If yes, then you are getting fuel to the cylinders. If no, SLOWLY back your fuel filter off. If it is full the move onto the next step. If it is empty, go under the truck and start looking for a puddle of fuel...you have an air leak!


If it is full, then is the fuel shutoff solenoid clicking on? Take a wire and go from the positive side of one battery to the fuel shutoff solenoid. It's the wire on the pump closest to the front of the pump n the right hand side. Did it click?

Try starting the truck again.

I would imagine that by now you have found the problem.

If the truck STILL won't start, two at a time, back the injector lines off a couple turns, but do not remove them, and crank the truck...either with a helper or by crossing the fender mounted solenoid with a screwdriver across the two big termonals....30 seconds per crank...2 minutes between crankings...or you will burn up the starter.

Is fuel spraying out? Not just dribbling but spraying? No, keep doing the bleeding process until you get fuel.

If there is fuel spraying out, do this will all 8 injectors until the truck either fires off or you get all 8 bled.

Try starting the truck. By this time your batteries will have taken a beating and you might want to bring a friend and a set of cables.

Hopefully this gets her going, but if not check back!!

I suspect that you lost power to the FSS (Fuel shutoff solenoid) and she won't run without that!

 

[Goofyexponent]

What I dues to do when my supply line was leaking, was crank the truck be crossing the fender mounted solenoid with a screw driver for about 10 seconds...then pushing the schrader valve on the filter head to let air out. When a stream of fuel cam out, I would get in the truck...let the GP's do their work and light her off. I fixed the line within a couple starts, but it was my only vehicle at the time.

I know your truck is a turbo truck, so reaching some of the lines and whatnot might be a little fun...but this is most likely just somethign stupid.

 

[crazy4wdracer]

I'm sure there are a lot of miles on my pump and injectors. It didn't surge at all before it died. I don't have a water separator, just a regular spin-on fuel filter. It was really dark last night so I couldn't even tell if I was getting white smoke while cranking. The good news is that I have a rebuilt IP sitting in the garage waiting to be installed but I need to order my injectors and return lines first which I might even order later today.

Thanks so much for the help, I really appreciate it.

And if running out of fuel was the only problem I'm going to feel like an idiot, haha.

 

[Goofyexponent]

I'm sure there are a lot of miles on my pump and injectors. It didn't surge at all before it died. I don't have a water separator, just a regular spin-on fuel filter. It was really dark last night so I couldn't even tell if I was getting white smoke while cranking. The good news is that I have a rebuilt IP sitting in the garage waiting to be installed but I need to order my injectors and return lines first which I might even order later today.

Thanks so much for the help, I really appreciate it.

And if running out of fuel was the only problem I'm going to feel like an idiot, haha.

I am willing to bet my new ZF 5 speed on the fact that you didn't run out of fuel. 9 times outta 10 when she runs out of fuel, it sucks air, the pump advances the timing a LOT and it surges like a blown 468 BB drag car. I had it happen in traffic when my supply line was leaking air in...light turns green, I just laid my foot on the fuel to slowly move and the tires squealed causing my to almost rearend the car in front of me !!

I am going to stick with my previous thought of losing power to the IP, or the IP just giving up all together. Take a piece of wire about 2.5 - 3 feet long with a 1/4" female spade connector on one end of it....I suspect that hot wiring it to the battery and then connecting it to the FSS terminal will get you going.

 

[crazy4wdracer]

OK, the only thing I'm not really sure about is......my IP is somehow wires manually, like you can shut it on and off from the inside of the cab, it's on a toggle. I'm not sure how it's wired in however. Will hot wiring it from the FSS to the battery still work?

 

[TWeatherford]

Definitely make sure that you have power to the FSS. Turn the key on, and unplug and replug it in on the IP and just make sure you can hear a click. I would think running it straight off the battery would work, but then you wouldn't have a very good way of shutting it off if things went south.

I'd check for fuel in your fuel filter next. Even if you just filled your front tank, sometimes the valve that switches between the tanks can get stuck half way between tanks, so it will pump all your front tank fuel to the back tank, or vice versa. If there's fuel in your filter then you didn't run out of fuel. I agree with goofyexponent, if you ran out of fuel it wouldn't just die out of the blue, you would feel some wierd surges as it ran dry before it died completely. Same with a plugged fuel filter, you would have noticed power loss for a while before it plugged solid enough to shut you down.

After that, do what goofyexponent suggests on cracking injector lines and seeing if you've got some fuel squirting.

 

[Rot Box]

I was going to mention the fuel solenoid on the pump. I had this happen on my last 12v Cummins and for whatever reason the plug just fell off and killed the motor. Hopefully its as simple as no power to the pump

 

[Goofyexponent]

OK, the only thing I'm not really sure about is......my IP is somehow wires manually, like you can shut it on and off from the inside of the cab, it's on a toggle. I'm not sure how it's wired in however. Will hot wiring it from the FSS to the battery still work?

It will work as a quick fix to get you home! Home and that's it!!! You will need to pull the wire off the battery to shut the engine down, or hold the brakes and dump the clutch to stall it, but I don't reccomend that.

Take a test light, turn the toggle switch on and go pull the wire on the right hand side of the pump off. Clip your test light lead to the negative on the battery and tough the terminal that you unplugged from the pump...lighting up? I didnt think so.

You could check for a fuse in line of the toggle switch wiring, but I doubt you will find one...most people just wire a switch like that up on the fly...no fuses.

My truck was like that when I bought it...but now everything works the way it should off the key.

 

[crazy4wdracer]

Here is what happened with the truck today when I was trying to get it going........I started by cranking it and didn't get any white smoke. I loosened up the fuel filter....it was full to the top with fuel. So next I ran a hotwire from the FSS to the positive terminal. Cranked and it wasn't even acting like it was trying to start. At this point I was pretty much unsure of what to do next. It was pouring down rain and I was soaked so I just called it a day. What else should I try tomorrow?

A few other things I discovered...On the drivers side battery the positive terminal came off. I can't find the cable either...I'm thinking it somehow got caught in the fan. Would this cause anything?


I knew my OBS 7.3 powerstroke quite well but I just haven't gotten to know IDI's as well yet but I love the 6.9 when I have it going.

 

[Goofyexponent]

Was there a clicking from the solenoid when you hooked the wire to the FSS?

The WHOLE cable was gone?! I know it's your truck and you drive it, but are you sure it was put back on after the radiator job?

You should have heard that come flying off as it tore the fan to pieces....a stock cable is 3/0.....that's like a boat anchor on a 1/2" chain going into your fan at 2000 RPM lol.

Why did you have to replace the old radiator?Are your fan blades all bent up?


Chances are, since your filter is full, that the FSS took a dump or completely lost power. I don't know why it would snap closed if it still had power, but I have seen weirder things happen!!

When you get a chance to go back out to your truck, make sure that the FSS is clicking. Be sure you have the right terminal.

This pic will help you identify the right terminal....the one closest to teh front of the truck on the RH side.

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Once you have determined you have power to the FSS and you can hear/feel it click, try starting again. You might want jumpers to reconnect the stray battery to the system again for juice.

If it STILL don't start, loosen up the injector caps two at a time and check for fuel at the injectors.

You have manual plugs? This is a VERY LAST OPTION!!! LIKE THE LAST THING YOU DO BEFORE YOU TRAILER IT/HAVE IT TOWED.

A 1/2 to a 1 second shot of ether in the intake, DO NOT GLOW IT!!!! If it's going to start, it will start. Do it once and if it just whirls kicks a couple times and then whirls and whirls....don't do it again. You can hurt the motor pretty bad with ether, maybe even ether lock it.

This is about all you can do on the side of the road unless you want to change the pump where the truck sits.

Either way, I'm rootin for ya.

 

[icanfixall]

If the positive cable came off the drivers side battery it will still be on top of the battery. If as you posted you think it might have gotten caught in the fan then you will have about 2000 amps worth of battery arcing everywhere. Look again... You may have lost the ground cable on the battery... Not a really bad thing but something you willl want to fix. These motors use plenty of battery to startup. Good to know the fuel filter is full. That tells me the lift pump is working. Use the pumper wire on the injection pump fuel shutoff solenoid connection. This connection is on top of the injection pump and its the wire closest to the radiator. Hook it up to a battery positive and then just touch the fitting on the injection pump. You will be able to hear and feel the fuel solenoid "click". Try this a few times to make sure. Post back what you find.... If you hear and feel the click that means its working...

 

[crazy4wdracer]

Well I got it towed home...with my dad's cummins, haha. I'll probably be ordering my injectors and return lines tonight and I already have a rebuilt IP so I'm going to do that and should be good to go. And even if that's not the problem I know my truck's due for that stuff anyway. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Thanks again!