Battery Cables

[riotwarrior]

Personally I crimp solder heat shrink....never a problem...solder has not melted out under hard cranking....cables in great shape.

Solder does take skill...and extra effort however done right its worth it.

By soldering you increase strength and help lessen if not eliminate any are inside the crimp terminal for GREEN FUZZ ...or any corrosion to begin. Thus a longer lasting better connection.

One thing I like about OB...is all the different ways to do it...

JM7.3CW Eh!

 

[ReticulateSplines]

There must be a trick to solder terminals. Del City has the solder plug sold with the terminal. That might prevent the over solder problem mentioned above. All the factory terminal a soldered, so it can't be all that bad. That said, they may have some way to preheat the entire assembly (like baking a circuit board before soldering a via to ground plane) to prevent the overheating and making cable brittle mentioned above. I crimped my last set of cables I made, but I'd be interested in hearing how to make the soldered terminals turn out like the factory terminal/cable.

You can heat those up to flow the solder, then insert the wire to limit the heat input to the wire.

I did not see, are those del city lugs rated for our application?

If someone is asking how to make cables, though, I will give them information on how to make the best end result with the lowest chance of failure. I have access to tools to solder larger cable and I still go mechanical for something like this. With properly installed crimps, there is no way for it to come loose.

As far as OEM application on our trucks, I would have to look at them but I was under the impression that the terminal lugs were lead and were swaged onto the cable.

Also, having been around welding and electrical control systems for some time, I just do not see a connection of this size, or with this kind of current, being soldered.

 

[ReticulateSplines]

Personally I crimp solder heat shrink....never a problem...solder has not melted out under hard cranking....cables in great shape.

Solder does take skill...and extra effort however done right its worth it.

By soldering you increase strength and help lessen if not eliminate any are inside the crimp terminal for GREEN FUZZ ...or any corrosion to begin. Thus a longer lasting better connection.

One thing I like about OB...is all the different ways to do it...

JM7.3CW Eh!

Increasing strength does not mean longer life, as studies in metallurgy and mechanical engineering prove. If you want sited examples I will provide. Over strengthening leads to increased rate of failure. This happens because increase of strength induces stresses that would not be present if it had not been over strengthened. By allowing the materials to perform as intended, instead of having a big beefy joint, you can eliminate the possibility of stress cracking and a host of other problems. On top of just the stress cracking, you start getting into Stress Corrosion Cracking as well.

Not debating the quality of your cables - but by chance have you opened any connections made that way? I have, many times over the last 14yrs or so and more often than not it has been a pretty poor connection. Solder is brittle, brittle is bad for electrical connections. You want ductility. And, if you want to make a proper solder connection of cable to terminal lug, you actually have to wet the solder into the lug itself. That is why that company Del-city has pre-fluxed, solder filled lugs. An argument and be made for tinning the end of the cable and then crimping it into the lug, in which case you would have achieved your goal of corrosion prevention and not overheated the joint in an attempt to make a proper soldered on terminal lug.


And back to my reasoning for the instructions I gave the OP - he was asking about how to make a good battery cable connection and if that is the case it is unwise to assume he has experience in doing so - if you know what your doing, know how to perform the operation, have the right tools and are practiced, that is great and by all means - you do you, boo. But with a welding lead terminal it is completely enclosed, then it is heat shrink covered and not going to corrode. I can clearly instruct someone on making a mechanical joint that will last, I cannot do that with soldering.

Thanks for your input @riotwarrior. I would enjoy seeing one of your connections. I would also enjoy cutting it in half to see what it looks like. But I see you are in Canada..... of course nothing de-solders there it is all frozen to begin with! ;P

 

[onetonjohn]

One think I forget to mention is (if you make your own cables) that welding wire is not the same as battery cable. Although it is designed to carry large current, it doesn't have the same oil resistance or temperature rating. I also haven't seen it in red. The battery cable is more expensive, but it's not an apples to apples comparison.

 

[DrCharles]

I was always taught that solder was for the electrical connection and not for mechanical strength.
ReticulateSplines' analysis is interesting concerning embrittlement of large joints though. For those cables I also recommend crimping (and sealing with heat shrink). And to use a properly sized crimp tool. Never mash it directly in a vise or use pliers.

For lugs down to 2 gauge I have one of these and it does a good job:
https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Crimp-Tool-Non-Insulated-Terminals/dp/B0002KR9MU

 

[ReticulateSplines]

I was always taught that solder was for the electrical connection and not for mechanical strength.
ReticulateSplines' analysis is interesting concerning embrittlement of large joints though. For those cables I also recommend crimping (and sealing with heat shrink). And to use a properly sized crimp tool. Never mash it directly in a vise or use pliers.

For lugs down to 2 gauge I have one of these and it does a good job:
https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Crimp-Tool-Non-Insulated-Terminals/dp/B0002KR9MU

That is a good price on the tool, I used to be a poor kid and spending the $$ was not an option so I learned to make the vice work. Also amazon was not a thing and the tool was not that cheap! If you look back at my instructions though it is more than just "mashing it in a vice" and the end result is actually pretty clean.

And that is 100% true, solder is NOT for mechanical strength. Using it for strength will cause failures.

 

[ReticulateSplines]

One think I forget to mention is (if you make your own cables) that welding wire is not the same as battery cable. Although it is designed to carry large current, it doesn't have the same oil resistance or temperature rating. I also haven't seen it in red. The battery cable is more expensive, but it's not an apples to apples comparison.

It does come in colors. It is chemical and abrasion resistant. It is high temp rated. In all ways it is far superior in that its design intent is to last through the most harsh, abrasive, hot/cold, chemical, and ozone environments while maintaining excellent current carrying capabilities and flexibility.

As far as battery cable being more expensive I am not gonna look it up right now but some welding lead is ~$10-$15 per foot depending on vendor

 

[chillman88]

I've been considering getting one of these...

https://m.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html

Anyone have any input?

 

[riotwarrior]

Marine battery cable trumps em all btw...

Been doing my cables as I said for over 30 years with a zero failure rate not many many fifty or sixty pairs of cables. Cars trucks and tractors alike.

You have your way....I have mine....I have as much qualified experience to be able to offer advice though no scientific proof.

I learned how to do this from a tech in a speed/auto shop when I was a teenager in the early 80's

We both have ways that work and honestly you method though faster is not neccissarily better.

Btw the lugs crimled and soldered on factory cable iirc was starter end...solenoid end...ground ends to clock..the bat ends are swagged...but most cables I see are green n fuzzy thusly I may be incorrect.

Gladly come look at my cables ifn u can....

JM7.3CW Eh!

 

[MtnHaul]

I've been considering getting one of these...

https://m.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html

Anyone have any input?

I would stay far away from that product. Personally I avoid Horror Freight at all costs. Informative review at this site as well as good battery cable info. https://marinehowto.com/making-your-own-battery-cables/

 

[My 90 oil burner]

ReticulateSplines.
Give me a price on making some cables sir. I’ll see if the budget will allow at this time.

 

[riotwarrior]

Looks like someone may have a cottage industry making his cables

 

[79jasper]

I've been considering getting one of these...

https://m.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html

Anyone have any input?

I have a bigger version of those.
Worked fanfreakingtastic the one time I used it. Do plan to make more cables in the future.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[ReticulateSplines]

@My 90 oil burner I will get back to you on that!

@riotwarrior (and others) please do not mistake what I am explaining as "do not follow your lead" or that I think your method is poor by any means. It is a perfect way to make a great, long lasting cable. To expand on my explanation, and my first response to the OP, I hope this clears it up for you all - DO NOT solder them means that the SOLE means of connection SHALL NOT be solder. Wrapping it in heat shrink doesn't count....

Marine battery cable trumps em all btw...

Marine application is top notch. And if you read what the ABYC Standards say, they will agree with us both.


I take it a bit further myself and use no solder for reasons including de-soldering issues, experience and metallurgical + mechanical engineering studies of what can go wrong. And I am a firm believer in Murphy's Law.

 

[mikeboggess]

I bought the main pos. cable from O'Reilley's, only difference was that the new cable did not have a secondary ground strap to frame, works perfectly and made a UUUUGGGGE difference in the cranking. The old clamp just would not get shiny clean like it was impregnated with acid.