Bad sound on a fresh rebuild (video)

[bbjordan]

Seems to me, the timing is too retarded. As Mel wrote in one of his IP replacement articles, the diesel rattle of a properly timed new IP and injectors can sound frightening. Your engine sounds pretty subdued. Retarded timing will cause it to smoke, and bog out at higher rpms.

My 6.9 cents...

 

[Big Bart]

Adding my 7.3 cents to bbjordan’s 6.9 cents …

Timing is everything on these trucks so you need to eliminate that from the equation.

Take your Gunson out and try the following.(I am guessing you did most of this but rather state the obvious than assume you did.)
1) Make sure you place it on the front passenger side injector line closet to the radiator. Sand the paint off the injector line under the piezo clamp to insure a better read. Often folks have a issue trying to read next to a bend in the line. So you may have to move it after the bend. But keep the clamp as close to the injector as possible. (0-6 inches.)
2) Keep your Gunson box as far as possible from interference like the alternator, heater box fan, radiator fan, etc….. This might be causing the box or timing light to be confused between different signals.
3) Hook up your timing light. Note that not all timing lights like these style of induction rings. If you have a buddy with a different brand or model of timing light borrow it if yours is not working. But try yours with the induction clip one way then flip it over the other way.
4) Still no flash on the timing light flip the injector line clamp or move it. Maybe put a little needle in between to make it clamp harder.
5) So you have a flash but -
a) It’s flashing erraticly, that is ok go for it, likely it is missing beats/injector pulses but not showing erratic timing.
b) It starts flashing erratically at 2,000rpm, go for it, likely missing beats/pulses but not showing erratic timing.
c) It’s the timing light is flashing but not showing the timing mark or so far off you can’t adjust the IP over enough to get on time. Then see comment below, perhaps IP is installed wrong.(IP is so far off (180*), the timing mark is out of sight When the injector fires.)


I have heard folks put the IP on 180* off, then have issues similar to yours. (Lack power, white/grey smoke, idles, but runs poor, etc.). So don’t rule out the pump could not be on right.

Hopefully you can get your timing tools to work and take that out of this equation.

Send some more pics of your Gunson and timing light.

 

[Big Bart]

One more comment, I believe the red light on the Gunson box flashes each time it senses a injector pulse. So if you have a flashing light on the Gunson box, it is reading the pulse. If no flashing light on the box move/flip the piezo clamp. No timing light flash, but Gunson flashing, likely an issue with your timing light. (Move the inductive pickup around and try flipping it too.)

 

[IDIBRONCO]

One more thing to ad to Bart's 7.3 cents. IF (not saying that it is, but only if) the timing would happen to be 180* out, then maybe the Gunson is working just fine, but the way off timing is keeping it from working properly? I don't know since I've never used one. I'm just throwing out a possibility here.

 

[Diesilee]

I think there's going to be a good, simple answer to this.

 

[Booyah45828]

I think the timing unit would still read correctly, as it will still be firing at tdc and hitting the same mark on the damper.

 

[Jake_IN]

Thank you all for the responses and comments. I really appreciate it! I'm a little slow at times getting back to you since I've got a bunch of other things going on at the moment (as i'm sure most people are here do).

Anywho, on to the update.

Took the truck on a trip to pick up some steel (that hurt the wallet) the other day. It was a 120 mile round trip and it cruised right along just wonderfully. I just kept it under 2000 RPM's and it ran perfectly normal. So that was good that nothing came up that concerns me. After that trip i went ahead and changed out the oil that was in it on startup (nothing suspect there either).

Something i did catch during that trip. Was after everything was good and hot (about 40 miles into the trip). I stopped at a gas station and checked my fuel pressure and i was down at about 1PSI at the schrader valve. That obviously is no bueno so i've got another pump ordered to replace the clikity-clack pump i was using. However, for now i don't think that is related to any of the main issue here.

I know a lot of you guys on here have been making comments about timing. I 100% agree with you that i need to get it dialed in. But keep in mind that the last video was after i had retarded it. The video on the first page of this thread is when i had it much more advanced, the issue still shows up regardless of advanced or retarded timing, just the color of the smoke changes. I still intend to time it correctly though and I agree with you all that it needs to be done.

Lastly regarding the gunson timing adapter. Thank you all that offered tips for that. I appreciate that you thought something other than OPERATOR ERROR could be the issue After i changed the oil today i decided to hook the equipment up and try it again. I didn't have enough time to actually time it though, just wanted to see if i could get the light to work.

Turns out i had the pickup on the timing light clipped on the loop the wrong way. Flipped it over and re-clipped it and i had a nice flashing light. It would cutout every now and then but not enough to prevent me from timing it. So we're good on that issue now!

So if you've made it this far congrats! I'm wrapping this up.

Current plan is
1. Install the fuel pump that will give the injector pump the fuel it needs.
2. Properly time it
3. See what happens next?

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Sounds like a good plan.

 

[Big Bart]

Jake,

1) I am guessing when you get the fuel pressure right with the new pump, your power drop off will stop.(Won’t run out of fuel or pressure.) Just make sure you do not have a fuel restriction, but at 1psi sounds like a bad pump.
2) Glad you figured out your Gunson timing system and timing light. My Kent Moore misses some injections, so just misses the pulses/flashes but does not make the timing mark jump around. (Timing mark disappears due to a missed flash but does not erratically move around when it does flash.) Hopefully it’s the same for you.
3) Hopefully your lifters are settled in and once your fuel pressure and your timing is correct your engine will run like a champ.

Then you will know you are a rock star rebuilder!

 

[Jake_IN]

Well folks...the plot thickens

Good news: Fuel pump came in, and i got it (hastily) installed.
Better news: That actually had (foreshadowing) the truck running significantly better. I noticed far less (nearly zero) bogging and the smoke was back to gray/black if i got on it.

Bad news: I drove home on 7 cylinders...
Less bad news: I actually caught the moment i dropped a cylinder on video.

So i was cruising around and everything was going great. Felt like i had more power, engine sounded better. It just sounded like it was running "right". I did notice once when i floored for several seconds that i produced one hell of a dark gray cloud of smoke behind me, and the engine was acting like it was bogging again. So i decided to pull over in one of the wind turbine lanes and do the "rev" test like i had posted videos of earlier. I did one and it sort of cut out at higher RPM's like it had been doing. The second time i pulled my phone out to record it, and you can see as the RPM's pick up i get small puffs of black smoke. However when it cuts out hard (probably closer to 2500 rpm's this time but thats just a wild guess) and i get all the white smoke, I dropped a cylinder....annnnnnd it didn't come back. Panic then sort of set in because i was out in the country with no one to drag me home. So i shut the video down, closed the hood, and drove it home at a very leisure pace on 7 cylinders.

Video #1

Key Times
0:11 You can start to see the puffs of black smoke
0:18 That was just my phone changing the mic settings due to the wind storm i was recording in.
0:22 Start of the "bogging/cutting out"
0:24 bye bye cylinder
(Rest of the video is me quickly realizing that the cylinder isn't coming back)

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Video #2
This was recorded after driving it home. Its mostly just to give better audio for the engine, but you can see the shake it has, and the white smoke at idle.

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So while it was idling like that i start cracking injectors and i believe i have this isolated to cylinder #1. When i cracked that one the same shake just got more aggressive rather than "doubling".

So i guess my plan now is to isolate this to a fuel or air issue. I'm going to try and locate a compression tester and see what compression i have on that cylinder and work from there.

As always, feedback and suggestions are welcome (and begged for ), i wouldn't be surprised if this issue is something else caused by the doofus that put this thing together.

 

[catbird7]

Just a shot in the dark here, is it possible you have any of the prebent "hard" fuel lines mismatched? I'm sure you know they are specific length for each cylinder.

 

[Jake_IN]

Just a shot in the dark here, is it possible you have any of the prebent "hard" fuel lines mismatched? I'm sure you know they are specific length for each cylinder.

Unlikely. I never removed the vibration dampers. So i just had 2 "sets" of lines to swap over. They never got separated into individual lines.

 

[bbjordan]

You could try swapping the injector on the suspect cylinder with another cylinder, and see if the problem follows the cylinder or the injector.

 

[Big Bart]

Jake,

I agree a compression test is in order next. But I would do all the cylinders not just #1.

If you do not have a pop tester, as bbjordan suggested you can move the injector to another cylinder and see what happens.

When you pull the injector out of the offending cylinder you may also find that the copper washer that seals the injector has failed or did not seal correctly. Or maybe some dirt, grime, or a bug got into the fuel line or the injector while they were off. Now causing a issue with the injector.

If compression and injector are good, time to send the IP to someone to run a test.

I will keep my fingers crossed it is not the engine having the issue, rather the injection system.

The OTC compression tester is pretty decent. I had to buy a glow plug adaptor for it. Harbor Freight has a diesel kit, some suggest they have to shorten the glow plug adapter to get it to seat in the glow plug hole.

 

[Jake_IN]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I think I'll have to pick up a hobofreight tester so i can keep moving on this. I'm out of town for the month of January so can't order anything until after i get back.

Spent a little time on it yesterday. I'm trying to avoid pulling the truck back in the shop, but working in the wind storm yesterday wasn't exactly fun. I pulled the valve cover off just little (didn't remove it completely, just as much as the fuel filter would allow). Got it pulled back enough to get a look at the rockers/push rods. Nothing looked loose or out of the ordinary. I then spent about 20min barring the engine over a little, checking the push rods and rockers for slop, bar the engine over some more, check some more, rinse lather repeat. It wasn't much of a check, but i was still happy to see no glaring issues there.

I'll try and pick up the compression tester today and see what i find.

Also @Big Bart I just saw you're in Newport Beach. I've got some family not to far from you that i visit from time to time. Nice area, certainly a good break from the midwest prairie.