Attempting to resurrect an old IDI. HELP PLEASE!

[Hydro-idi]

You can bleed the air from the system by cracking lines loose at the injectors & cranking for no more than 15 seconds and then waiting 2 minutes for the starter to cool down. Of crank for 15 seconds with the lines tight at the injectors. Then loosen them and watch and loosen for air escaping. You do not need every injector flowing fuel for the engine to start. If you have the easy to reach injectors on each side that will get the engine running. At least 3 well bled injectors will fir off the engine. Then the others will clean up as the engine runs.
You wont see lots of fuel at the loose injector line. These diesels burn very little fuel at idle speeds. The most you will see is a small drop of fuel. Now what will make you feel something is wrong is when the fuel finally is pressurized to say 1850 lbs only then will you see fuel squirting out of a loose fitting. Remember its only pressure with a very low volume of fuel. Also be careful not to allow the high pressure fuel touch your hand. It WIL get injected under the skin and cause all kinds of trouble.

Gary, I have always had problems starting my engine after doing Any IP system work to it....with cracking 1 injector at a time. When I did HG's last year, I cracked them one at a time and that got me nowhere. That's with fresh batteries, cables, GP system, block heater plugged in, aux fuel pump etc. I then cracked them all open and that did the trick. Guess every engine might be different tho.

 

[catbird7]

I had a similar problem a while back on an engine that set for long period, thanks to info provided on this forum the problem was identified as the fuel shut off solenoid. It was simply gummed up!

 

[NCTractor6.9]

Catbird, can you expand upon your point a little further? Where can I find this solenoid and what can I expect?

now for an update...I followed the instructions you guys gave me yesterday and this morning loosening all injectors and turning the motor over a few times until I had no more bubbles. I went through that process 3 times then tightened them all back up. After heating the glow plugs and trying to start it, it still won't start. I'm hitting on 1 or 2 cylinders because it does sound like it's trying to start, it's just not hitting on enough to fire it up. I'm going to try purging the injectors again and see if I can get better results.

Thanks again

 

[catbird7]

Fuel shut off solenoid is on top of the injection pump. If you're getting fuel out of the hard lines going to each injector, this is probably not the problem. Others on here definitely know more about these engines than me, however are you sure the timing is correct?

 

[NCTractor6.9]

Catbird, I'm not sure about the timing honestly. I took the IP out and from then until we put the IP back in after the head gasket job the crankshaft didn't move. I guess I could check to see if the timing was correct. How would one do that?

 

[fsmyth]

Gary, I have always had problems starting my engine after doing Any IP system work to it....with cracking 1 injector at a time. When I did HG's last year, I cracked them one at a time and that got me nowhere. That's with fresh batteries, cables, GP system, block heater plugged in, aux fuel pump etc. I then cracked them all open and that did the trick. Guess every engine might be different tho.

On the Stanadynes, here is what I do:
Make sure you have at least 4 p.s.i. of clean new fuel from the lift pump. (6-10 better).
Make sure you are not picking up any air in the lines feeding the pump.
If you loosen ALL the lines, it lets the pump fill with fuel. May not get to the line ends, but it
will begin to fill them. After a few spins (with no air in lines TO the IP), then seal them back
up, and loosen one at a time, then tighten back up WHILE CRANKING after fuel shows at the
injector. Do it for at least 4 of them (preferably all, but that's a lot of cranking and waiting).
Make sure you are not picking up any air in the lines feeding the pump.
Once the lines are bled, try it with 10 seconds of glow plug operation.
Make sure you are not picking up any air in the lines feeding the pump.
If that doesn't do it, disconnect GP controller, and hit it with less than 1 second squirt of ether.
(2 seconds if you are squirting into the air cleaner intake).
You should now be running.
Did I say to make sure you are not picking up any air in the lines feeding the pump?

This procedure works for me 100% of the time on mechanical injection pumps (not just
the Stanadyne types) regardless of the engine type and whether it has pre-cups or
glow plugs or intake heaters. Warm/hot air is preferable if available, but is not absolutely
necessary for it to work (just makes it easier).

The main problem I see with the IH IDI's are the combination of high cylinder pressures and
low cranking speed (relatively weak starters). Pull-starting, while risky and sometimes
awkward, will speed up the process somewhat. Obviously not an option with automatics.

 

[fsmyth]

Catbird, can you expand upon your point a little further? Where can I find this solenoid and what can I expect?

now for an update...I followed the instructions you guys gave me yesterday and this morning loosening all injectors and turning the motor over a few times until I had no more bubbles. I went through that process 3 times then tightened them all back up. After heating the glow plugs and trying to start it, it still won't start. I'm hitting on 1 or 2 cylinders because it does sound like it's trying to start, it's just not hitting on enough to fire it up. I'm going to try purging the injectors again and see if I can get better results.

Thanks again

The shut-off is inside the IP. With the key in RUN, remove the larger push-on connector.
The other is the fast-idle solenoid).
You should hear it operate every time you disconnect/reconnect it.

 

[fsmyth]

If the IP gear did not move, then the timing should be the same as it was when
you took it off. Doesn't mean it was right before you started.

Since you seem to have most of the air out, and are getting fuel, what _I_ would
do is mark the pump position, and then move it about .050" one way and the other.
One direction should show an improvement.
I would not make a permanent mark until I was sure it was reasonably close to correct.

Someone has pointed out before that these engines will run (miserably) with the pump
180* out, or a few teeth off. Just a thought. No personal experience here.

 

[sassyrel]

Catbird, can you expand upon your point a little further? Where can I find this solenoid and what can I expect?

now for an update...I followed the instructions you guys gave me yesterday and this morning loosening all injectors and turning the motor over a few times until I had no more bubbles. I went through that process 3 times then tightened them all back up. After heating the glow plugs and trying to start it, it still won't start. I'm hitting on 1 or 2 cylinders because it does sound like it's trying to start, it's just not hitting on enough to fire it up. I'm going to try purging the injectors again and see if I can get better results.

Thanks again

go get a plastic one qt spray bottle.....put some chainsaw gas mix in it..while someone is turning the key, spray this down the intake,,till it will stay running by itself...then get the gas out of the nozzle and tube,,as it will screw up the gasket behind the plunger...pump water thru the nozzle.......

 

[fsmyth]

go get a plastic one qt spray bottle.....put some chainsaw gas mix in it..while someone is turning the key, spray this down the intake,,till it will stay running by itself...then get the gas out of the nozzle and tube,,as it will screw up the gasket behind the plunger...pump water thru the nozzle.......

Bad idea, IMHO. A gasoline-soaked rag would be preferable. Not as much chance of
locking it up. Ether is more controllable. Use it SPARINGLY. The truck will start and
run on ether only, if done properly. Takes a bit of experience.
I suppose the gasoline will work the same, but I would not do it unless it was an
emergency and engine damage was not an issue. The 1-2% oil in the mix is irrelevant.

 

[NCTractor6.9]

Ok I am going to try and adjust the pump timing. How would one adjust the timing?

 

[fsmyth]

Ok I am going to try and adjust the pump timing. How would one adjust the timing?

The only real way is with an adapter and timing light with an adjustable advance.
Or a degree'd tape on the balancer. The adapter senses the pulse in the line.
There is also a method to use the glow plug hole, but it is a PITA, IMHO.
Use either #1 or #4. One of the lines should have the factory timing sensor
(depending on whether the engine is for conventional or van application).
The sensor MUST match the injector line in use, and must be there.
The IH engines may or may not have one.
Timing may vary 1 or 2 degrees depending on which line you use.
And it needs to be set at speed, not idle. I use 1750 rpm. Others use 2000.

Advance it by turning pump towards passenger side.

 

[JLtoolman]

Ether and gasoline are both bad ideas, without experience and extreme caution. This cost me an excavator motor. Several people (mechanics) tried to get it started, none successfully. When we did get it started, it had two bent rods, one of which broke after about an hour, spitting the engine almost in half. The original problem had nothing to do with the engine, it was something mechanical dragging it down.

 

[fsmyth]

Ether and gasoline are both bad ideas, without experience and extreme caution. This cost me an excavator motor. Several people (mechanics) tried to get it started, none successfully. When we did get it started, it had two bent rods, one of which broke after about an hour, spitting the engine almost in half. The original problem had nothing to do with the engine, it was something mechanical dragging it down.

ANYTHING can be abused. And I have seen more abuse from ether than proper use.
That said, it has it's place. And used as I have suggested, there is little danger of
damage to the engine. Over 40 years of experience, and NO damage to any engine
by me. As a mechanic, it is a godsend in some cases. Saves a LOT of time.

 

[NCTractor6.9]

Hello, I am a new to the forum, also.

Good to hear of another one getting back on the road. Looks like we are close to each other.

I have some experience starting diesel engines that have run out of fuel. Let me know if I can help.

Toolman, can you PM me your number again please? We arent having much luck, in fact I think my situation might be getting worse.

Thanks, T