Am I going to need a new IP and injectors for my 6.9?

[mozzles]

Hey everyone, just joined this forum but I've been posting on ford-trucks.com for a few weeks. Have bought an '86 F250 w/ 6.9L awhile back and am having some issues... lots of white smoke, some on idle but a lot when I accelerate, tons of it up hills. Also it's hard to start cold, and the other day I was left stranded after driving to the store and then not being able to get it started afterwards. This was the first time it wouldn't start while hot. I'm thinking it might be the IP and/or injectors what do you guys think?

Oh and there's somewhere around 115,000 miles on it, if the previous owner was truthful and it only rolled over once. Neither the IP or injectors have ever been replaced or repaired to my knowledge.

Zac

 

[Rot Box]

Welcome to the forum lots of great info here

Yes at 115k and the fact its original I would say you are on borrowed time with the injector pump and possibly injectors. Also white smoke is typically a sign of burning water/antifreeze. The head-gaskets on these engines don't last forever and worst case you could be looking at replacing them.

As for the other problem here's a good chance you have air getting into your fuel system which will stall the motor and make it difficult or impossible to restart. For safe measure you should probably rebuild, replace or bypass your water separator (under the hood, driver side near the firewall) as they are known to cause problems with age. Also there are two o-rings on each injector that are famous for causing the starting/stalling problems as well. They are very simple to replace and I would highly recommend doing so. The fuel/lift pump should be replaced as well if you don't know its age or the history on it.

Go through the tech articles. TONS of great information there. Once you get it all sorted (we've all been there) you can't help but love the IDI's they are an awesome engine

 

[The Warden]

Welcome aboard

First, I would recommend smelling the exhaust...white smoke can be an indication of burning coolant, but it's also possible that it's gray smoke, not white smoke, which is a symptom of injection timing being too retarded, which in turn is a symptom of a failing injector pump. If it smells sweet, it's probably coolant; if it smells like fuel, it's a pump issue.

Given the age of the fuel system, I would strongly recommend preemptively replacing both the pump and the injectors. I would be careful of where you get them from...there are some good suppliers and some suppliers who are not so good; take a look at the Hall of Shame for examples. If you can afford it from a time and financial standpoint, buying a Baby Moose pump from Mel would be the ideal. Russ (typ4) can set you up with a set of injectors that are at matched pop pressures; this would also be a very good idea if possible. You'll also want an injector installation kit, which includes return lines, O-rings for the injectors, plastic T-fittings, and replacement fuel "olives" that seal the metal lines going from the fuel filter to the injector pump.

Two potentially important questions...first, are you naturally aspirated, or is there a turbo kit installed? Second (especially important if you're naturally aspirated), whereabouts do you live? Do you primarily drive your truck at relatively low altitudes i.e. the Midwest or coastal areas, or are you at higher altitudes i.e. the Rockies? I ask because naturally aspirated engines and high altitudes don't play all that well together...actually, even at low altitudes, it would be worthwhile to invest in a quality pyrometer, but this is especially critical at high altitudes.

Hope this helps some

 

[mozzles]

Thanks guys. The smoke does seem like it could be more gray than white, and definitely smells rich like diesel rather than sweet. Oh and my engine is NA, and I'm living at about 3,600ft.. would this be considered high elevation?

I don't have a lot of money to work with and was considering getting an IP from an auto scrap place here, if I could get some life out of it. Or possibly used injectors. Seems like getting both new would cost me 500+ and I'm a full time college student with a part time job. If I were to go with only a new IP would I be ok for awhile?

 

[icanfixall]

Welcome to the forum. It does sound like the injecters and injection pump are well worn. Sometimes the pumps wear out so bad that they can't make enough pressure to pop open the injecters. Then as a band aid repair you can thicken up the fuel with some atf or cheap oil. If as you described it would not restart after its warmed up some try pouring cool water on the end of the injection pump that the hard lines connect to. This shrinks the pump so it tightens up the loose tollarences in it. Thats only another band aid repair. If it was hard starting cold and the exhaust smelled like unburned diesel then your glow plugs are burned out too. Only Motorcraft Berus are the brand we use on this site... Autolite and Champion are terrible plugs and should not be used. As posted above theres plenty of information here. Just ask before you turn a wrench.

 

[dizdak]

welcome, do spend time reading posts, you will gain much knowledge here.. running some oil in your fuel does help when starting the engine after running it, i am adding in cheap 10w30 oil to my fuel till i have the money together for the moose pump and new injectors...

 

[riotwarrior]

Welcome to OB, sounds like a decent enough truck with a little investment in some time, work and money

It has alll been touched on the IP the GP's the injectors and return line caps/orings.

I would suggest reading our FAQ section thoroughly as well as browsing the Tech articles there is plenty of good info in both sections to start and help you out.

Again Welcome

Al

 

[mozzles]

Thanks for the welcome guys. So I never got an answer, would a junk yard IP probably work fine? As long as it got me 5-10,000 miles I'd be happy with it. I'm a full time college student and don't get much for hours at my job, so it's a bit for me to get both an IP and injectors right now (especially when winter is coming and I need decent tires for it).

Injectors are only $150 new so I can do that, but I can't pay the $300 or so for a new IP right now.

 

[hesutton]

Thanks for the welcome guys. So I never got an answer, would a junk yard IP probably work fine? As long as it got me 5-10,000 miles I'd be happy with it. I'm a full time college student and don't get much for hours at my job, so it's a bit for me to get both an IP and injectors right now (especially when winter is coming and I need decent tires for it).

Injectors are only $150 new so I can do that, but I can't pay the $300 or so for a new IP right now.

Junk yard IP and injectors are a poor bet. Likely to give you as many if not more problems as your current fuel parts. $300 IP and $150 injectors are really cheap. Makes me wonder where they are saving all that money to keep the cost that low? I know money is tight and you gotta do what you gotta do...... but I'd really recommend a quality rebuild and new injectors. Again, junk parts are often that....... junk.


Heath

 

[mozzles]

Maybe $450 is really cheap for you, but when you have very little income and need to get new tires soon, that is a lot.

Would the injectors at least do their job and make it run ok if I just replaced the IP with a new one? Also, this truck is definitely driveable, it's my daily driver and has only left me stranded that one time, and not for too awfully long.

 

[Hydro-idi]

$500 is alot of money for many of us to spend on injection system parts. We are just trying to help you and provide you with good advice. Junkyard injectors and IP can be nothing more than trash so why go through the hassle of exchanging worn parts for someone else's worn parts. I would run the truck as is until you can afford quality injection system parts.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Welcome to the OB.
On a truck that's 26 yrs old and has the original IP and injectors, you can bet they are pretty well worn. If the odometer only turned over one time that's 215,000 miles on it. What you could try is to advance the timing, with all that gray/white smoke, it could very be the timing is retarded from wear. Are your glow plugs in working order? If your GP controller is bad, an updated one is available on ebay. There are many threads on how to advance the timing.
You should put you truck in your signature. Also it's beneficial to know what State your in, cold or warm, makes a difference in replies to questions. As stated, junk yard parts like you need are just that, JUNK. Before buying anything, read the Hall of Shame.

Glow Plug controller.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/220940855686?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Timing reference.
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?59907-IP-Adjustment-for-timing-purposes

 

[Rot Box]

The injector pump is a very intricate and delicate component of this engine. Unlike a carburetor the average person cannot tune it up it has to be rebuilt and 99% of rebuilders don't rebuilt the pumps properly. I would take my chances with a junkyard pump long before I paid big money for a crappy "rebuilt/reman" pump. If you can score one at a scrap yard for twenty bucks or so sure give it a shot what do you have to loose? I know several farmers that make a habit of doing that with varying degrees of success. I don't recommend it but I know what its like to have zero dollars to spend

The ultimate solution here is a Moose Pump if you fall in love with the truck save your pennies for one

There is a right and wrong way to change the injector pump on this engine. What looks like the obvious choice for removing the pump is THE WRONG WAY--DON'T DO IT! Please ask here before you decide to pull it so we can walk you through it. It is simple but again if you do it the way that looks easiest you will create a ton of work for yourself re-timing the engine

 

[hesutton]

Maybe $450 is really cheap for you, but when you have very little income and need to get new tires soon, that is a lot.

Nice!


Trying to help here, not bust your balls. No, I'm not saying $450 is "really cheap" to me or anyone else. However, the cost of a quality rebuild IP is in the $600-$700 range. New quality injectors are in the $350 range. So....... when you are talking about a $300 IP and $150 dollar injectors...... Yes they are cheap. And, unfourtunately, you often get cheap quality with those parts because to sell them that cheap they are cutting corners in quality.

If you are going to spend your hard earned money on parts, I don't want you getting junk that will not help your situation. That's all.

Heath

 

[Dieselcrawler]

Who needs tires if the truck won't run?