air filter upgrade

cowman79

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Posts
305
Reaction score
1
Location
Mayslick, ky
I was looking at installing a higher flow air filter and getting rid of the factory air box for my 94 idit. I have the filter which is a donaldson air filter. It has a 4" inlet. I have seen pictures before of people who have removed the factory air box and installed the donaldson off to the side of the engine but it seems I cannot find an pictures now. Could someone help me find a link to a thread with pictures of a project like this. thanks for the help.
 

'94IDITurbo7.3

HAMMER DOWN!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Posts
5,353
Reaction score
3
Location
Fowlerville Michigan
these aren't mine.
You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach
 

cowman79

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Posts
305
Reaction score
1
Location
Mayslick, ky
thanks for the help. I have the Donaldson filter pictured in the first pic. This is what I was thinking of doing but it is looking like I will need to relocate my windshield washer jug and the overflow jug. I have searched for two evenings and couldn't find all of these pictures and you find them in like 20 minutes. you all are amazing.
 

cowman79

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Posts
305
Reaction score
1
Location
Mayslick, ky
I am having trouble finding this ghost tube. When I search it I get 40 pages of results anything to narrow the search
 

'94IDITurbo7.3

HAMMER DOWN!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Posts
5,353
Reaction score
3
Location
Fowlerville Michigan
I have searched for two evenings and couldn't find all of these pictures and you find them in like 20 minutes. you all are amazing.

i try not to brag:rotflmao. no, i have them saved on my computer for reference and times like this. in the first pick he only moved his washer fluid tank, the overflow tank is still in factory position. he does not have an A/C compressor either so that gave him for room. there is also one member on here that i know of put his filter behind the passenger side battery.
 

cowman79

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Posts
305
Reaction score
1
Location
Mayslick, ky
I have factory air on mine. I might get by with just moving the windshield washer tank not sure. I cant really put it on the passenger side because that is where my carrier pump is mounted right on top of the inner fender.
 

dgr

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Posts
915
Reaction score
238
Location
sac town
Try the last post on this thread
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?26775-Moose-questions
Unfortunately, a member has "ghost tube" in his signature so every thread he posted in will come up. Advanced search of just titles might help.

Honestly, it seems dead simple. Decide where you are putting the filter, visualize the two adapters and the piece of straight pipe you will need and order them from silicone intakes. Do a tech article and be famous. I don't know why people put the filter over on the fender. It looks like there is plenty of room over the valve cover and engine compartment air is going to be hot no matter where it is.
 

PwrSmoke

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Posts
807
Reaction score
22
Location
Northwest Ohio
What I don't like about the setups pictured is hot air. You are trading more airflow, which you need only a small part of the time, for hot air that costs you power ALL the time. Watched some dyno testing where intake air temp was incrementally increased by 10 degrees starting at 75 or 80F. Power started to drop at about 100 and had dropped about 5 percent by 150F and went rapidly downhill from there. Was dyno testing a Cummins a few moths ago on an engine dyno and you could see the power go down the hotter the room got. Hot air is less dense with oxygen than cooler air. Also, the hotter tha air going in, the higher the EGT by the same amount (unless you are intercooled).

The factory Ford data says the engine will use 430cfm@ 3000 rpm to make 190 hp. What we need to know is how much air the factory filter can flow. I'd be willing to wager, it can flow more than enough to keep up with the engine.

If you want to find out if more air will do you any good before you waste time and money:

Make sure your air filter is new. Replace the restriction gauge with one that reads actual number Filterminder, Donaldson informer, etc. OR, make a fitting you can install in place of the filter restriction gauge so you can hook up a vacuum gauge (preferably one with a large dial that reads from 10 inches to about 30 and can read individual inches of vacuum). Go out and do some balls-to-the-wall testing and record the amount of vacuum generated making sure you are at full boost. Whatever vacuum is generated is the restriction in the filter and housing. Generally speaking, if you stay well below 15 inches of vacuum at peak power at redline, you won't gain much by reducing it. Zero is ideal of course but the power difference between zero and 10 inches is nothing. You can start to measure a little power loss above 15 inches and the losses increase rapidly as you go higher.

Anyway, it still comes back to cool air. Assuming you can use more airflow, you could gains some power with a freer filter and then lose all you gained by sucking in hot underhood air (On a hot day, I measured my underhood at 160F going down the road). If you are going to build something, make sure it's an enclosed system that's ducted to the coolest outside air you can get.
 

cowman79

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Posts
305
Reaction score
1
Location
Mayslick, ky
Mine already sucks hot air I don't have the hose from the air box to the front of the hood.
 

FordGuy100

Registered User
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Posts
8,749
Reaction score
282
Location
Silverton, OR
While I agree that introducing hot air is not a good thing, I'm thinking the flow itself will make up for it. Heck after a drive my stock air filter housing is so hot its hard to imagine that the air isnt getting heated on its way into the turbo.

Besides, most people report betther throttle response, more boost (which could possibly be because of the hotter air???) better fuel mileage, ect.

I guess you could rig up a box with the fresh air duct going into it and a big filter. The stock filter sucks IMO
 

'94IDITurbo7.3

HAMMER DOWN!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Posts
5,353
Reaction score
3
Location
Fowlerville Michigan
while driving down the road the engine bay air is only a couple degrees difference from outside air. i used to have my air intake threw the cowl, not i just have it grabbing air right off the air box. throttle response is better egt's rise SLOWER, boost comes on FASTER. there is ZERO denying that more warm air is BETTER than less cold air. IMHO, for what the turbo heats up the air the little bit that you would gain by doing a true "cold air" intake would be negated.
 

PwrSmoke

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Posts
807
Reaction score
22
Location
Northwest Ohio
More air only makes more power if the engine needs more air. Automatically giving an engine more airflow capacity doesn't change a thing unless the engine NEEDS more airflow.

Sometimes power can be had by tuning the runners. I didn't see too much evidence of that in the pics above. Turbos chop the air up pretty well, so intake tuning in TDs is often a very exact and difficult science.

Throttle response... meh! It exists as a factor but it's so subjective that it mostly becomes a talking/bragging point and a way to justify doing something to the truck. If you reduce the restriction enough to feel significantly better throttle response (really feel it... most people think they do but don't really) then you likely also got a power gain with it and that's what you "felt."

Many stock intake systems have more than enough airflow to make stock power plus a reserve. The few I know about for sure had 20-40 percent more airflow capacity than the engine could use. That extra capacity exists to account for air filter loading due to dirt so the engine can still make rated power with a dirty filter. If you've increased engine power by other means, you will have increased airflow needs and once you've gone past that flow reserve the stock system had, then the lack of airflow hold you back from making all the power you could be.

I don't have direct experience with the IDIT but the air filter assembly looks pretty well deigned to me. Heck, hooking up the outside cold air duct may give you enough of a boost to feel.

Heck, here's an offer. I have access to flow benches and can sometimes get the guys to run little "projects" for me. If I could get the various types of IDI air filters, with new fitlers installed, I could possibly test them for airflow. I'd need to know how many filter assemblies we'd have and ask the guy that runs the lab, but he did some for me before. Here's a pic of one test I had done.

You must be registered for see images attach
 

PwrSmoke

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Posts
807
Reaction score
22
Location
Northwest Ohio
while driving down the road the engine bay air is only a couple degrees difference from outside air. i used to have my air intake threw the cowl, not i just have it grabbing air right off the air box. throttle response is better egt's rise SLOWER, boost comes on FASTER. there is ZERO denying that more warm air is BETTER than less cold air. IMHO, for what the turbo heats up the air the little bit that you would gain by doing a true "cold air" intake would be negated.

The part you said above that I highlighted is true in theory but unless you've proven that there is a need more airflow (and I outlined above one way a guy could find out at home), and the lack of airflow is causing a greater loss of power than the hot air, then it's all bench racing. The preference would be more cool air, not either/or.

I also disagree about underhood air temp being the similar as outside. Sometimes it is but not on a hot day with a roasting hot engine. I had a mechanical intake temp/underhood temp gauge installed in both my F250 and a diesel Blazer and ran them on and off for years studying the effects of hot air vs warm air vs cool air. My underhood temps got pretty high... like I said I recall 160F underhood on a hot day at 70 mph on a mild grade in Colorado. I played around with checking intake temps with the cowl duct connected and disconnected and it was always higher, sometimes lots higher, with it disconnected. I also calculated the airflow of the intake hose and it had a lot more than the engine could use. Still, I oughta pull that puppy off and get in flow benched to see for sure. FYI, both my 6.9L and the Blazer 6.2L had Banks turbos installed.

Anyway, if warm air is so unimportant, why is everyone installing intercoolers? Like I said before, hotter air in = hotter air out. It's proportional. You knock 30 degrees off the intake air, you've knocked 30 degrees off EGT. FWIW, if given a choice of either/or, my philosophy is that I'd rather have cooler air 95% of the time, than more air the 5% of the time I'm running balls-to-the-wall (and 5% is being pretty generous for most of us).
 
Top