A Member Is Having Troubles After Upgrades

[icanfixall]

We have a member thats experiancing issues after upgradeing his engine. He has some valve issues so both heads came off and were rebuilt. A typ4 cam was installed while it was down. The baby moose was reinstalled. Truck started up and ran fine. Not timed yet but runs fine. then its become hard to start. Cranks lots.. Sever attempts but finally fires. Some white smoke seen. Would not restart after warmed up. Accidently found out that if the electrical advance was hot wired it would start eaier. Now its gotten worse. So the pump has been advanced nearly all the way over to the passenger side stops. It died while idleing at a stop lite and had to be towed home last nite. The question is what could be happening. My thoughts are the timing is slipping and its getting more and more retarded no matter how far advanced you put it. I told him to jumper the electrical advance to start it. That was yesterday and it worked great. But now it wont. We talked about the cam gear key falling out when the gear was installed causing the cam timing to slip. Thats a far fetched reach for that one and we know it. Fuel pressure to the injection pump is 4 lbs with a new mechanicl lift pump and filter. Only thoughts are the screen in the end of the injection pump may be plugged up because this is getting worse as time goes on. Its a 99.999 % sure the timing marks are correct on the injection pump gear to cam gear to crank gear. If it was not the first fire up would be the same as it is now... Tuff to fire off. I actually heard the engine cranking. The DB starter is spinning the hell out of it. With the jumper wire to the electrical advance terminal it really tried to start but sounded like a retraded engine timing. So that was pushed over to advance and it fire up. Help is needed here. I'm about done with what I know and would like to hear from the forum . We both thank you for any ideas too...

 

[jpw]

Could it be IP binding/ sticking when it gets warm? How long was truck down w/ IP off? If compression is good narrowing down cause between advance & fueling can be done with a spare innector and line connected with injector spraying into bottle to check fuel delvery. Cooling IP by pouring water over it ( slowly ) may also give direction.
HTH
J

 

[icanfixall]

Thanks for the suggestions. I did tell him to remove a line and fix an injector to it just to see if the pump can make anough pressure to pop it open. He supposedly doing that now.. When its warm and hard to restart I told him twice already to do the cool water on the pump but it has not been done as of yet. I do not know how the pump was kept when it was off the engine but hopefully it was kept clean. It was off for about 6 weeks as I recall. Maybe more or less. I just feel the timing is changing but can't figure out why. If the pump is getting fuel at 4 lbs the only issue I see is the screen in the end of it may have trapped some crap and is plugged up. That will cause some interesting advance issues too.

 

[chvycmnslvr68]

Low primary fuel pressure can simulate ratarded timing ... It causes the injector to take a little longer to POP ... have your friend check the fuel pressure .. My cummins had similar symptoms and after replacing the transfer pump the problem was resolved .. good luck .

 

[chvycmnslvr68]

You say he is only getting 4psi fuel pressure .. he should have at least 13-15 psi .. I would almost bet that is the problem ... another thing is that the shut-off solenoid may not be opening all the way ... try hooking a hot wire directly to the battery ... I hope this info helps ..

 

[mobilemech]

With 4psi that might not be enough psi but pressure is not as important as volume. These mechanical pump will run fine at 5-7 psi as long as the volume is good. Check fuel volume while cranking. As was stated low delivery fuel will cause retarded timing condition.

 

[icanfixall]

I also feel low delievery volume and pressure will cause timing retardation. There was plenty of fuel out of the schrader vale while cranking once. As for these injection pumps requireing 13 to 15 lbs at least is not really factual. 7 is what the factory recommendations clearly state. Adding more pressure will advance the timing and Mel did a 1 lb increase showing this. I do not have those specs he found but I'm sure they can be brought back to this topic. Thanks for all the suggestions too. We do feel its helping to understand whats going on thats getting worse as time goes on... Its like something is plugging up or slipping more and more...

 

[chvycmnslvr68]

well I am running a cummins and the same type pump on them requires 13-15 that's what i was going by ... I have never been a ford guy but the same symptoms can usually have the same resolutions no matter who makes them ..

 

[chvycmnslvr68]

My Cummins was recently having all the same problems .. it would start fine cold but once it warmed up if it was shut off or died then it wouldn't start again even with starting fluid ... it didnt make any sense to me .... but after a couple timing adjustments it has ran fine w/o any more problems ... it was retarded really bad ...

 

[mobilemech]

For timing to change on its own there is a mechanical failure starting, ip going bad or advance plate sticking. The for mechanical fuel pumps are 5-7 psi. The delivery pump could be going bad and is worse when hot. Check the oil level to see if it's making oil. Good fuel at the schroeder valve once or at first then not so good, I would look at the delivery pump. The moose pump is a solid pump but can have problems, it is mechanical. Advancing the ip made it run then it got worse again so the only thing that did was to hide the problem for a little bit.