92 Cummins Getrag and exhaust manifold question

Rot Box

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Hello to all ;p I joined awhile back, but most of my attention has been focused on the IDI Ford Forum--untill now!

I found a 92 reg cab five speed that I cannot live without and I should be bringing it home on Tuesday ;Sweet I is definatly a grandpa truck bone stock with 190K miles and I have a few questions conserning it.

First: What's the deal with the Getrag 5 speeds? I'm nervous because it seems that they have a bad reputation? Are they weak when a lot of power is thrown at them or is it because the thin oil gets hot when towing? I have no intention of breaking the 200 HP mark so hopefully I'll be ok. Also this truck shifts fine and has had the oil changed every 30K-50K miles with the right oil so...

Second: The exhaust manifold has me worried. You know how after time the ends start to pull towards the center? Well this one looks to have done it to the extent that one of the bolts on the top front has completely sheared off! The manifold does not leak, and it looks like I could drill and tap it out for a replacement fairly easy. Should I be worried that the truck has seen extreme egt's? The manifold itself doesn't seem to be cracked, but it does have a white color in some areas :eek: but maybe it's just corrosion...

Anyway I'm plan on using the search button for any more questions, but where I haven't picked it up yet I can still back out depending on the responses that I get here if that makes sense :cool

Andrew
 

tonkadoctor

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It's not uncommon for the exhaust manifolds to warp, crack and snap the bolts or studs from heating and cooling cycles. ATS makes a 3 piece manifold that allows for the expantion and contraction, little spendy at $400

Getrag isn't a bad tranny. After all that one made it 190k right.

Downfall of the Getrag is the small bearings and lack of lube cooling to the (IIRC) input shaft bearing. People overcome this by overfilling the transmission by about 1 qt through the top PTO cover bolt hole or putting in a street 90 elbow in the fill hole. Use synthetic 5w-30 motor oil in it. Another is it doesn't like to be lugged at too low RPM.

One thing the getrag does have in it's favor is it doesn't have the problems with the 5 gear nut backing off like the NV4500 has.

Remember this tranny and every other out there was designed to handle the HP and TQ put out from the factory when it was produced.... not the HP/TQ we can modify them too put out.
 

Whit

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the Getrag tranny has been known for failure and the reputation is poor

upgrade to a NV 5 speed or 6 speed would be best

replace the manifold wit a 3 piece unit so it can expand and contract easily

I run the HTT unit and am happy with it


Getrag info


inspection of failed Getrags revealed that excessive heat and insufficient lubrication were causing the transmissions to literally self destruct from bearing failure. At that point, I started doing research on the Getrag design and service procedures, looking for possible ways to modify it for better lubrication and cooler operation. My research showed the basic problem of premature failure with the gearbox was probably a combination of premature pilot bearing failure, use, bearing preload, basic design, type of lubricant and the power of the Turbo Diesel. We considered installing an external oil cooler and using synthetic lubricant. Our conclusion: while an oil cooler might prolong transmission life, we would still see bearing failures due to the modest size of the preloaded bearings; the use of a single tapered roller bearing on the front of the main shaft to handle radial, lateral and thrust loads; and drivers who would power up hills with heavy loads in fifth gear.

The only contributing factor to Getrag failures that is easy to remedy is the clutch pilot bushing. Why Dodge used a pilot bushing in the first place is a mystery, but a simple flywheel modification that any competent machine shop can perform permits the installation of a heavy duty, sealed ball pilot bearing.

www.quad4x4.com
 

Rot Box

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;Sweet Very informative thanks you guy's!

It's funny I remember looking at the internals of a Getrag a long time ago, and I remember thinking that my 79 Toyota pickup's transmission had larger bearings! But granted the Getrag has held up for 190K miles, and the only two performance modifications I plan on doing are a less restrictive intake, and a 4 inch exhaust so we'll see what happens.

Thanks again can't wait for Tuesday! :D
 

argve

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I would put on a 3 pc manifold - they can warp the head if the bolts don't bent enough or snap off. I have an ATS 3 piece and loving it... When I went to take my stock manifold off it had bent the snot out of the bolts for number 1.
 

Rot Box

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Sounds like the ATS manifold is the way to go. I told my wife (who spends all my mo... :eek: crap she's right behind me! :rotflmao ) that the truck will need a few repairs and pm's done to it. So maybe the manifold and a few other goodies can be added soon :D

Hopefully getting it tomorrow -then pulling the Toyota to a 4x4 trail 150K miles away Saturday- can't wait to see how she does ;Sweet
 

Whit

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Here is some info on the HTT I did

Tips and tricks for porting/polishing/installing a 3 piece exhaust manifold

After much reading of folks having troubles with the OEM manifold cracking and the bolts coming loose from expansion and contraction I decided it was time for me to go to a 3 piece manifold, I opted for the unit from High Tech Turbo and purchased one from a reputable dealer , The manifold arrived and I was like a kid at Christmas time. Out to the garage with a full weekend ahead to play. Here is a pic of the manifold and installation kit

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OK first thing first we need to prep the almighty Cummins by removing the turbo and manifold.

Step one
- Remove the air filter housing and the inlet hose, tape off the charger inlet with duct tape so no dirt or dust can get in there.

Step two - Remove the clamp from the charger discharge to the intercooler, 11mm deep socket needed, then tape off both flanges (cleanliness is mandatory boys)

Step three - Remove the oil feed line to the turbo, 20mm wrench; yep tape off both the swivel nut and the inlet into the turbo.

Step four - Remove the two bolts from the oil drain tube, you will need a 10 mm socket with extension on the inside bolt and a 10mm wrench on the outside bolt.

Step five - Remove the five 13mm bolts from the exhaust elbo and save the gasket as you will need it. This step may differ pending your turbo setup.

Step six - Remove the two 15mm nuts from the underside of the turbo flange where it bolts up to the manifold this will be a true test of your dexterity. Now remove the two 15mm bolts and carefully remove the turbo. Tape off all open flanges of the turbo at this point .

Step seven - Remove the exhaust housing using a 13mm socket and extension, Save the 12 bolts and spacers as you will need them. Clean up the machined surface of the Cummins and make sure all carbon deposits are gone.
Take a good look at the old manifold and check for cracks so you can understand the heat issues you are dealing with here, If you have access to a bead blaster you may be surprised what you find as the cracks will be very apparent, this manifold may become a trophy of sorts so you can brag to your buddies about that time when you hit 1500° on the dyno hehehehe. If it is cracked show the wife as this will help to justify a different turbo arrangement in the near future, that's right boys use the system it works hehehehe.

Now that we are this far its time to address some porting issues. Let's concentrate on the six exhaust ports of the HTT manifold. There are some milling tracks that we need to feather in here, Remember the manifold is .300 so don't get to carried away and by no means do you want to alter the flange face as it is a perfect machined surface . . . be careful and go slow. Here is a pic of the port untouched as it was received.


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Here is a pic after I carefully removed some metal and feathered into the exhaust tube, I still need to put a smooth finish on it but this will be done when all 6 ports are how I want them.

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OK now we need to polish the 6 ports up as smooth as we can, remember looks doesn't matter too much so go by the feel, if it feels nice and smooth then you are there, What you have now done is to make a less restrictive and free flowing manifold that will help to get rid of those high EGT's
Let's now take a look at the exit of the manifold where it mates to the inlet of the turbo. Here is a pic of the ports untouched compared to the OEM manifold.

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First off we need to make a footprint of the turbo flange face, I used a thin piece of gasket material and a small ball peen hammer to tap one out. Now mark the template side with turbo side, exhaust housing side and top so it won't get confused later. Take the template and the thin metal gasket and place it exactly on the flange face of the manifold, remember to side marked manifold side? Now with it in place use some bluing spray or some dark spray paint and lightly paint the metal showing on the face so you know what to take off. It will look something like this.

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This is tricky so look it over good, what you want to do here is not to open up the ports big time but rather to feather them in, keep in mind the manifold is only .300 and you don't want to get to aggressive here. I start with like a 30 degree angle and remove all that in painted, this will only feather the opening into the throat about 3/8 to 1/2 inch, then when you get that far you can lessen the degree and feather it in like an inch or so. After you get it like you want it polish it up real good and remember to go by feel . . . if it feels good than it is good! The manifold is ready for a complete blow down of filings and dust.

Installing the HTT exhaust manifold

Note: all mounting hardware to have a coating of anti seize before installation. Re-torque all bolts after a week or so.
Install the six new gaskets ant ten of the original mounting bolts (13mm) with spacers, cylinder 3 and 4 top original mounting bolts will be replace with the 2 new 15mm bolts supplied in the mounting kit. I put the gaskets and bolts on the manifold first as the steel gaskets have retainers in them to hold the bolts from sliding out. Hold the manifold up to its new home and work one bolt on each end in, this will hold it in place while you screw the others in place. The #3 port top bolt will need the waterline bracket as well. Tighten to snug only with a ratchet then move in with your torque wrench set at 25 lbs, start in the middle and work your way to the outside, now set the torque wrench at 35 lbs and repeat, remember boys a smooth torque wrench is more accurate, Where is that little smilie where the guy is hitting himself in the head with the hammer?

Take a good look at the oil return line, if the gasket is still there remove it and clean up the surface. Install the turbo by bolting up the flange from manifold to turbo. . .don't forget to use the new gasket supplied with the kit. Install oil feed line, exhaust outlet , charger outlet and finally the exhaust outlet, Now take a look around to see that you have NO filtration, yep go ahead and install that too while you are in there, don't forget to take the tape off all this stuff before you go back together eh

If you run a temp probe (and please tell me you do) use the pre tapped port lined up with exhaust ports 4, 5 and 6 as they run the hottest.

Cheers,Kevin
 

Rot Box

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:hail Whitmore thanks for that write up! Wow did I come to the right place or what?

I just barely pulled in the driveway with the truck, and I still haven't wiped the grin off my face LOL Comfortable ride, lots of power, great looks, good milage--Is there anything this truck can't do? Off to work now I'll have to post up some pics when I get some time ;Sweet
 

PackRat

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Hopefully getting it tomorrow -then pulling the Toyota to a 4x4 trail 150K miles away Saturday- can't wait to see how she does ;Sweet

Holy schite! That seems like a long way to go to a 4x4 trail.
:rotflmao :rotflmao :rotflmao
 

Whit

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So the 3 piece is already set up for the probe? i was wondering that...

the ATS 3 piece manifold comes pre tapped for EGT..

* 01 Cummins/Dodge/HO/6 speed*275 injectors*PDR 35 turbo w/14cm housing & high pressure boots*HTT 3 piece ported exhaust manifold*Progaurd 7 with prefilter*Edge Comp*Fass II*Southbend con OFE*Jacobs brake*5"Stacks Big ens*E/F shift knob w/2low & brake switch*10 Gages*KW Ram air System cab controlled*Rickson 19.5x285's*True speed calibrator*Rancho 9000's*2" Leveling Kit*DT track bar*DSS steering stabilizer*KW Side impact rails*KW Traction Bars*Toolbox/fueltank 60 gal Combo*Mag High Tech Diff Cover*Ranchand bumpers*Grover air horns*Rear Wheel Cylinder Upgrade DYNO 375 HP 941 TRQ

I remember the night when rubberfish had the upper bunk....he was wearing his spiderman jammies with the built in slippers

http://www.dieselbookmarks.com/
 

jaymayisback3

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