91 7.3 idi low miles, starting issues/ other ?'s

[A_G]

So i kinda feel ignorant asking this, yes i used the search feature.

I got a 91 f250 109k on the clock with the 7.3 in it, in trade for me fixing a tractor and a few vehicles.

Its been a well taken care of truck, i mean the interior with a bit of of cleaning is showroom quality, but it was a truck just to tow a horse trailer and move stuff on a ranch.
Ive been using this truck on my nieghbors ranch for years and when she said she was gonna sell it i could pass up bartering for it.

so with that history, its never had a starting issue until this year, just takes forever to start it. even in 95 degree heat. You can hear the glow plug relay clicking, unknown if they are actually heating though, i have bled the air out of the system.

But unfortunately this recent year, her not me, it has been started with ether, as a offroad equipment/over the road mechanic i know the issues with using it.

Seems like the first time you start it in the morning it just takes forever, 10 or so trys, waiting for the glow plugs to cycle, cranking for about 20 seconds a try and eventually it will start. After that, it warms up, even if it cools down from setting it starts just fine.

The batterys are getting weak i can tell that.

So enough beating around the bush, yes im a diesel mechanic but ive never worked on one this old.
My issues are:
First starting takes forever to start
Previous owner used ether
its been tagged as a farm truck, and i think she used dyed diesel in it (how the hell do i get that crap out of the tank)
white smoke during cranking, not coolant or oil based, definately diesel

What i think my issue is, Ive got a dead glow plug or a few, possible fuel running back to the tank (check valve?) maybe a fuel line that lets air in, but just enough over night to make starting issues
crappy batterys

Just wanted to read some opinion to check before i spend a ton of time. make it easy dang it

thats what i have for now,
i know im forgetting something but im just brain dead right now.

Thanks

 

[plywood]

Air intrusion is a possibility, but if you have white smoke and it starts with ether then you should have some fuel.

How long does the WTS light take the first time you turn on the key in the morning?

 

[A_G]

i havent really timed it, but its longer than normal, over other 7.3 trucks ive driven
Im wanting to say the light goes off but i continue to to hear the relay clicking for another 2-3 seconds.
Total probably 10-20 seconds. I think its excessively long, but ill time it in the morning

Its white smoke during cranking, cold engine if i remember right.
and black smoke at first start up, over fueling, not enough air etc

id like to rephrase my last post, yea i actually work on diesel but ive never worked on a 7.3 much less very many mechanicals, in fact only one a MF245

 

[A_G]

Sorry it took so long to get back to this.
the WTS light stays on for a split second, but the water in fuel stays on while cranking.

Its cranking at 250-300 rpms. The batterys are super weak.
i get a 2-3 10-15 second cranks out of it before they are having alot of trouble.

I found out the rear tank really doesnt work, died at a major intersection in tulsa just seconds after i flipped the switch, and the batterys almost killed trying ot restart it.

I put about 300 miles on it this weekend.
she ran great, loads of power over my 302 f150
get the a/c fixed and tint the windows and she will be grand.

the ladys love that truck to

as far as exhausts go, a little more power, little better sound, i was thinking just hacking the muffler out, not gonna hurt anything am i?

 

[duaneboggs]

I would bet the glowplugs are toast since ether was used, especially since the gp light is going off immediately. Mine stays on 10-15 seconds when the engine is cold.

I definitely would charge the batteries and have them load tested to see if they are any good, the faster it cranks the better it will start also. It is a definite possibility the starter is no good since it has been cranked so much.

As far as the exhaust, I run mine straight piped into dual 5 inch stacks, pretty loud on hard acceleration but hasn't caused any mechanical issues yet that I know of.

What part of Oklahoma are you in?

Duane

 

[A_G]

Yea i was figuring on getting glow plugs on monday. I read theres perfered brands, but its bosch and ? right?

Batterys are like 3 yr old walmart ones, i just recently completle killed a 1yr old walmart one in my f150 and possible did it again since it wont start.
Im thinking better brand or...yellow tops but thats kinda pricey for 2

Personally im not doing stacks, just not my thing. maybe later on but right now i dont like them. Im thinking sleeper. Its a ranch truck so its got its dings, and scratches. I didnt take very good care of my first vehicle 4 yrs 3 transmissions that sort of thing, so im kinda try and make this one look nice and some decent power. Hell this thing still has the factory radio in it, btw how do you get it out of these model trucks. Im gonna switch my stuff over from my f150

As far as the okie thing, I live in peggs, oklahoma. A town of like 100 ppl in northwestern cherokee county, east oklahoma

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[plywood]

Start with batteries for sure, then you'll know if you have other problems, low voltage from them may even affect the WTS time. ( just a theory of mine, haven't verified it yet).

To be on the safe side, if you need them Motorcraft/Beru GPs are the ones designed to work with the automatic controller.

 

[RLDSL]

Hey, You're only about 25 miles from Oldmisterbill's house as the crow flies.You couldn't be in a better place with an IDI
You want to use the Beru/Motorcraft glowplugs ONLY! nothing else on these critters or you will find out the hard way.
It does sound like you have an air intrusion on that thing somewhere . Since it doesn't cough first it's probably the orings on the return line setup. A new injector install kit would be in order , it comes with new orings and hoses and plastic caps. that usually takes care of that little problem.

 

[pybyr]

Start with batteries for sure, then you'll know if you have other problems, low voltage from them may even affect the WTS time. ( just a theory of mine, haven't verified it yet).

To be on the safe side, if you need them Motorcraft/Beru GPs are the ones designed to work with the automatic controller.

+2 on the Motorcraft/ Beru plugs. My truck (1989) has only 17,500 miles on it (retired fore truck) and someone had put other glow plugs in it; I just changed them back to Motorcraft/ Berus and it DOES make the difference people say that it does- the WTS light is more consistent and when it fires, it really fires.

I got my glow plugs on ebay for less than $9 each- but DO look for ones that are really Motorcraft/ Beru-- lots of people do the "same as" baloney in their listings.

By the way, original poster, regarding your "the ladys love that truck too"- I'm jealous, so many women around here want a man who drives a Toyota Prius- in my case, if I'm going to have a truck and use a truck, why not have a truck (and one that does better on fuel than most things 1/2 its size/ weight]

 

[A_G]

+2 on the Motorcraft/ Beru plugs. My truck (1989) has only 17,500 miles on it (retired fore truck) and someone had put other glow plugs in it; I just changed them back to Motorcraft/ Berus and it DOES make the difference people say that it does- the WTS light is more consistent and when it fires, it really fires.

I got my glow plugs on ebay for less than $9 each- but DO look for ones that are really Motorcraft/ Beru-- lots of people do the "same as" baloney in their listings.

By the way, original poster, regarding your "the ladys love that truck too"- I'm jealous, so many women around here want a man who drives a Toyota Prius- in my case, if I'm going to have a truck and use a truck, why not have a truck (and one that does better on fuel than most things 1/2 its size/ weight]

Yea i was getting laughed at in my f150, tool box head ache rack, offroad lights, (2wd but i live on a ranch the lights are ncie) sub, nice stereo, glass packs. But this weekend, the ones that laughed at me...where riding shot gun....if ya get my drift.

Old mister bill says wagoner, thats in wagoner county, so a bit farther, used to drive through there on the way to work everyday for a long time. 51 through hulbert to 69, to muskogee turnpike

Ill be getting the glow plugs monday, some wheels im getting super cheap. running down to the local we will do anything exhaust shop and have em hack the muffler off.

Injectors will be in the following weeks, Now there is different codes on those, what ive read around here it doesnt matter but some perfer the BB (or is GG) code injectors.
does it matter?

Start with batteries for sure, then you'll know if you have other problems, low voltage from them may even affect the WTS time. ( just a theory of mine, haven't verified it yet).

To be on the safe side, if you need them Motorcraft/Beru GPs are the ones designed to work with the automatic controller.

On your theory i can see it, my idea of it is. Low voltage the starter takes priority so it doesnt have enough to throw the controller, so starter priority takes over and kills the glow plugs for cranking power.
Kinda like some electrical systems in new vehicles (high end stereos, new cars, sleep cabs on big rigs (power inversion)) killing power to them when battery voltage is to low to support both cranking and those systems

 

[plywood]

On your theory i can see it, my idea of it is. Low voltage the starter takes priority so it doesnt have enough to throw the controller, so starter priority takes over and kills the glow plugs for cranking power.
Kinda like some electrical systems in new vehicles (high end stereos, new cars, sleep cabs on big rigs (power inversion)) killing power to them when battery voltage is to low to support both cranking and those systems

I wish it were that simple, I would have a little more hair left.

The reason why M/B plugs work best is that their ohms/resistance changes as their temperature changes. The controller can tell what their resistance is by the voltage measured across the wavy metal band resistor mounted on the controller while power is being applied to the GPs. If a different GP is used, the controller may think by it's resistance that it is hot, when in reality it is not.

M/B GPs start off with a near zero resistance while cold, and go up over 20 ohms when hot. Because of this, the voltage across the wavy metal band starts out at almost 12v, then as the resistance across the GPs goes up, the voltage across the wavy metal band goes down to around 1v. So, my theory is based on the idea that if the overall battery voltage is low and the controller is measuring across the wavy metal band, it may see the lower voltage sooner and turn off.

I have a bad controller that I took apart, sort of. It's sort of like encasing an egg in a coffee can of epoxy and then trying to get the egg out without damaging it. What I could tell is that it is a very complicated circuit board. I've seen guys say that the controller is too simple and reliable to break down so the GPs must be bad. While it may be fairly reliable, it is definitely not simple, in fact I would say it's likely the most complicated thing on an IDI.

I have a nice little accurate volt meter hooked to my truck that I watch while manually burning my GPs. So far I am thinking it may not be a particular voltage that causes the controller to turn off so much as it is may be a relationship to the battery voltage just before the burn. It will take several start ups at different temps before I am more sure. I am hoping to see a voltage where the GPs are hot (ready to start), and so far it seems to be about 10.5-10.6 volts, which is without the wavy metal band. I have tried it with a wavy metal band hooked up inline such as the controller does, and it changes it to about 9.6v across the GPs, and about 1v across the wavy metal band.

Summer is coming and so I may not be sure till after the winter months, but at some point I will likely post my findings.

 

[icanfixall]

The slow turning starter has me thinking its shot or just about ready to let all the smoke out of thw windings. Low voltage going to the starter creates lots of heat. That will kill a starter fast. See if any wetness is found around the retulines. If so replace the kit but... Pull all the glow plugs and install some Motorcraft Beru plugs... They are the finest plugs out there. The either use will destroy a glow plug fast. Thats probably what your hard starting issues are. When you replace the plugs remove the hard lines from the injectors but leave them connected to the pump. Remove the hard line vibration dampners too. But make sure you reinstall them. If you don't the lines will break from the fuel pulse vibrations. Those tiny little 1/4 20 bolts are really tuff to make up after you have removed them. Buy some longer bolts. Either 3/4 or 1 inch will work fine. Or try to install the oem bolts.. I'll bet you thorw those short bolts in the bolt bucket fast... Don't bend the injector lines much at all. After the clamps have been removed they are easy to move for any work around the injectors like return lines or glow plugs. Hope this guides you along the way to an easy starter....

 

[A_G]

Funny thing i actually do this for a living, but it seems i can walk over to john does house and do a overhead with my eyes close but when it comes to anything i own i always go stupid.

ive worked on 60 series engines, dt466 engines, maxxforce 13s, n14s, isx, 3176
some cat engines with 24 cylinder the engine was bigger than this truck. dd15s

But yet im gonna start this tmrw and go stupid
Anybody else have this issue? or is it just me?

 

[RLDSL]

Funny thing i actually do this for a living, but it seems i can walk over to john does house and do a overhead with my eyes close but when it comes to anything i own i always go stupid.

ive worked on 60 series engines, dt466 engines, maxxforce 13s, n14s, isx, 3176
some cat engines with 24 cylinder the engine was bigger than this truck. dd15s

But yet im gonna start this tmrw and go stupid
Anybody else have this issue? or is it just me?

.... and the eye doctor needs glasses and the cobbler's kids need shoes... it;s an old story

 

[A_G]

now since i dont want to post another thread ihave another quesiton, well two but they pertain to the same thing

i was told that the rear tank did not work on this pickup, it does switch and the gauge reads the switch.

and the front tanke doesnt work below a 1/4.
Well the other night i decided to test the rear tank, and it really doesnt work, died at the stop light and i couldnt find the hazard switch

So on my 96 gasser its got fuel pumps in both tanks. Since this is a diesel im assuming it only uses a lift pump off the block to get it from the tanks right?

So what im figured is, the pickup tube is screwed in front tank and below a quarter it doesnt pick up fuel (i havent had the guts to test it, i really dont want to bleed the air out)

and on the rear tank, either the switching valve is completle clogged or something.

Im not sure where to go with it. was thinking about picking up a completly new rear tank and sending unit pickup tube etc. but id like to hear waht yall think.

thanks