1998 E4OD on the outside... ...wait a minute!

[trackspeeder]

I forgot to add this.

www.transmissionpartsusa.com

 

[SDEconVan]

Once again, a BIG thanks Trackspeeder for the pointers.

Have 3 new Feed Bolts coming, thank you.

I have the Center Support Gasket with embedded silicone (Sonnax) on order. I have pulled the trigger on most of the items I listed. You brought the Rear 6-Pinion question up, so I called the seller and he said, "It will fit all the E4OD's I know of..." (When have I heard THAT before...) SO, more research while I wait for parts, once I get his part then I will know and will send it back if it ain't right. Is there any way to tell by looking? or will it fit and still be a wrong part? YIKES! Any tips on either visual cues or measurements would help me along a lot.

Also have a Hayden remote spin-on filter kit coming, looks like I'm increasing the fluid volume with these add-ons, but will consider the larger sump after I get installed and check for ground/bash plate clearance, good idea worth considering anyways. I saw the pan that came with this E4OD has a drain plug:

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Being new to this type of trans, I wonder if this is OEM? Will look at the 4R100 pan, good tip!

All added up, the budget I set for the transmission is still alive so it looks like I can bring this thing up to Ford HD Diesel specs, hoping to handle 300ft-lbs etc.

Best regards,
George

 

[SDEconVan]

Oh, and I'll check the Direct Drum for 5 clutches once I get off work. (Not to sound negative but I expect to see 3 in there... ...whomever built this trans did a very clean and correct job, but OHH Man they used cheap parts!!!)

Pulled it last night but didn't have the knowledge of what to look for:

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George

 

[icanfixall]

Your going to want to make sure the rear return line fitting in the trans case is for 3/8 straight cut pipe threads. Thats a check valve back there to keep the torque converter from draining when you shut down the engine. check the threads to be 3/8x18 straight cut pipe threads. It might be the smaller 5/16 line fitting for the return lines that came on some of the early E4OD trans. Grainger or mc master carr sell the special straight cut pipe tap and the drill needed for drilling out the case is a 37/64 drill bit. When I got my BTS trans I found out they sold me a built trans with the 1989 5/16 return lines on it. I had a rebuilt Jaspers that had the 3/18 braided stainless steel lines on it. So I drilled and tapped my trans instead of sending it back so BTS could do it. Saved time and their money doing that my way..

 

[SDEconVan]

Good mod Icanfixall, I'm looking into that next time I get in my workshop- My case is 1998, I did recall seeing a ball/valve fitting in the Pass. Side of the tranny.

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I screwed one of the suppliled trans cooler fittings but didn't make a note of the exact size...

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I'm going to seriously pursue this, because anything to promote Trans Fluid Flow is worthwhile IMO


Well, this evening I waited for the 90+ degree heat to settle a bit and got to looking at my Direct Drum Clutch to see if it had 5 frictions:

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Looks like 4 frictions. Borg-Warner brand but still not passable, so the 5 clutch will be on the order list.

I spoke with the seller of the Rear 6-Pinion Planetary, and he said, "It works for the 12 lug style, which is the E4OD, Cast style, the stamped steel style is a 24 LUG and is 4R100 style" which I am hoping he is right.

Also for anyone looking at the TransGo "Tugger" Shift Kit, after talking to them, I found out the E4OD kit does not have Snap Rings, but the 4R100 Kit does, which may explain the difference in price. That said, there may be an E4OD kit out there with the rings, but just be aware there are kits without them, and you may have to buy the Spiral Snap Rings separately.

Lastly, I finished the evening getting everything but the Reverse Shell out, and I found a CRACK!

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BUT, it's on a plugged galley boss in the aft panel of the transmission case:

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It's a factory plug needed as part of production. I am contemplating drilling a shallow hole (NOT through) at the progression of the crack to increase it's surface area. Luckily the crack is on the non-flowing part of the galley way, which supplies pressurized transmission fluid to the Reverse One-Way Inner Race. Cannot afford to have that bearing starve and fail!

Anyways, running down a checklist of seals and gaskets and waiting for parts to come in...

Best regards,
George

 

[trackspeeder]

Make sure you do not remove the return line fitting. This is the anti drain back valve. Ford's fancy name for a check valve. This keep the converter from draining back into the pan.

You know you can cheat on that direct drum. Buy a cut pressure plate, then stuff another friction and steel in it.

The crack should be ok. Somebody got a little carried away with the plug.

The Tugger kits I have handled included everything. Not a biggie. Use the Sonnax Spiral Lock snap ring. Sonnax makes a better lock ring. Theirs includes a locking feature so there is no way for it to come out.

 

[SDEconVan]

I went to pick up my injection pump from Brian at Omega and few hours later there was fire all around the area...

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Found a little trick to remove the Reverse Shell, using compressed air, it popped right out in spite of two tight ring seals.

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A shot of air with the blow gun and "thump" the shell was free

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(That is the last of the hard parts)

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I was on the phone with a few vendors today trying to figure out how they set endplay. The question came up because the Spiral Snap Ring is a set thickness, and the ATSG describes how different thicknesses of Snap Rings are used to get endplay into spec. Good, tight endplay reduces the shift engage times (apply,) like when you put it in reverse and a second or two later it bumps into gear.

According to a couple of shops, it is the FRICTIONS that can alter the end play. Also, there are shims available for the Reverse Planet ass'y. For example, these shims are 0.010" each which can be added to the stack to tighten up the Reverse Clutch Assembly (reverse gives the most problems because of fluid circuit volumes are competing with the demand made by reverse, so the less slop in the assembly, the less fluid volume needed for a reaction.) Sonnax p/n 36402-z.

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(part that says "Shim- 4 slots")

I came across one guy who sells a "Delayed Reverse Fix Kit" which must be thicker frictions/plates for the Direct Clutch and Coast Clutch, reducing the overall excess volume within the working motion of stack when demand (apply) is made. 45 bucks, but I'm not totally sold on this... ...anybody out there try this? valid?

The Spiral Snap Ring will be used, so there must be an alternative method to get the slop within specs. (Am thinking about Reman parts getting machined to clean up surfaces and the slop gets worse and worse with each rebuild, I am hoping the mentality is NOT to increase pump/system pressure and flow rate just to compensate for this!)

Speaking of fluids, I got the stock cooler fittings out of the case to have a better look-see. Again, I have more questions, both fittings seem to be "bottle necks."

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The diameter of the port in both fittings looks to be about 0.20" and I thought maybe enlarging them would increase flow, but the journals within the case are looking to be drilled at about 0.20" as well.

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The internal threads are close to 1/2-20 but I imagine them to be compression fittings since I see rubber seats inside of each thread bore. Funny, the transmission itself is metric, until we get to the fittings... I'm a bigger fan of standard units, but I'll let it slide this time...

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That said, I think it is a good thing to keep the EXTERNAL system as UNrestrictive as possible, that way fluid demands at the fitting will never come up short because of a sub-standard cooling system. I plan to use 3/8" tubing and hose as much as possible in the system and also plan to flush the existing Transmission Cooler. The stock cooler will be well-suited for cooling the transmission whilst the vehicle is not moving.

Really, there are two things happening and fluid volume is the lesser issue. More important is the control of the temperature and I think that added fluid amount from the aftermarket cooler element and remote filter will only help with cooling.

Next is figuring out how to get the good endplays.

Tomorrow might be a down day, I think a friend's house burned down so we might have to help sift through it, can't find his dog.

Best regards,
George

 

[typ4]

Sorry to here about your friends house, I have a bestie lives down there, works in Otay, hate the fire season.

I like to use as much tubing as possible for the cooler lines as hose insulates, metal sheds heat. Sounds like you are on the right track. I build autos but not e4od's, did 2 and that was before all the upgrades, what a nightmare.

 

[riotwarrior]

First sorry about your friends loss, it's never a good thing to hear about fires...unless it's an ex

When you are done with all the parts gathering can you please provide a nice PICK list with all part #'s and brands please?

I've an 4X4 E4OD that's Dead ...reverse only no forward so I'm thinking that if I get it apart with list in hand I may be able to do the rebuild myself.

Keep up the good work and thanks for all the interesting info.

 

[trackspeeder]

Sorry about your friends house.




You're learning. Compressed air make life easy. You will be using it again to test your fluid circuit.


Don't worry about the Spiral Lock ring thickness. Good chance you will not have to use any shims.

Low/reverse. The fix has nothing to do with direct or coast clutch.

Ford has zero specs for this pack. What you need to do is take a measurement. You will most likely find a number around .060"+ That is way too much. What you want is around .020" to .040".

To fix this you can buy thicker steels. All frictions are the same thickness. You can buy the required steels cheaper than $45 clams. The way I do it. Add more meat.(friction and steel) That takes machine work.
The last way to fix this. A bigger boost valve. You should have that in your Tugger kit. I would tighten the specs and do the boost valve. This will make the tranny respond quicker.

Back to those pesky cooler fittings. If you really want to run 3/8" lines. Use the 4R100 bypass set up. This will fit your E4OD. You can find them at a junk yard or new from Ford. If you find a used part Sonnax has a rebuild kit for it.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Sorry to hear your buddies house burn't, that's one hell of a mess there from what I see on TV.
Seems like Cali is either shaking or burning. No pun intended.

Been watching your build on the E4. None of your attachments are showing, all come up as invalid attachment. I have two of the E4's to rebuild, both are 1990's.

 

[SDEconVan]

Thanks for the concern guys, my house is a good 20 miles from 7 of the 9 fires, and 10+ miles from a couple others that got put out quick. Just a note, my buddy's house looked like it got run through a table saw, the house and half the garage looked pretty good. Then the other part was charcoal still smoking. He was freaked out when he heard about looters, we went early they let us in (S&W MP40's under the seat) and got his two giant roller tool cabinets with his lift gate and got out of there. The rest of the property was locked up good still and I saw Guardsmen driving around. Was so focused that we didn't get no pictures, but another friend got this one... ...I saw it too, a little plane came in to do a drop, but didn't drop anything- about 10 seconds later this came in right behind the little plane, over the ridge and blew it's load all over the neighborhood

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I have to say, with all the high tension lines, hills, deep canyons and smoke, I have to hand it to these guys, heard they had 40 craft in the air at one point this morning and last night... ...one fire is running out of control still as I type this.

**************

Hey Typ4, yeah, I'm looking at 3/8" hard brake line because it has fittings already on one end, just have find out if they thread into the case fittings, pretty cheap if they do, then I just have to put a flare on the cut end.

RiotWarrior- , yeah wished we could pick which houses get the fire, weird thing is when you are there, you notice the fire is very selective, five houses good, one gone, 3 more good.

Pick List is a good idea, I'll sort out what parts worked and get sources out. One word of warning, might not make a difference, but the trans I'm working on was rebuilt and never ran, just sat for almost 2 years. So, a lot of parts I'm just taking out, looking at, and putting back in.

It's the ones I look at and scratch my head that I am changing out for better ones. (I'm just trying to have an up-to-date factory style E4OD, no sled pulls or real-deal stuff like that.) I'm seeing such poor quality inside of transmissions lately and guys paying quite a bit for them, that I was suspicious and now as shown, for a GOOD reason!

Hi OldBull8, I sent the admin a message that my photos sometimes don't show, or worse, don't open. I kinda need pics that's how I do it, hope it sorts out or I can go back and re-do the one's that don't show. (edit: I figured out how to make it work, got all the prev pics up as thumbnails, just click on them for close ups.)

Well TrackSpeeder, I feel I owe you a bit of an apology, I overstepped my bounds. My limited knowledge over onto your real experience. That cheaper TransGo Tugger Kit that supposedly did not have a Spiral Ring DOES come with it! I musta heard the guy wrong, I wrote it on my notes talking to him that way even, but it isn't right.

Basically I ended up with TWO snap rings, the supplied one from TransGo and one from Sonnax:

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(Sonnax is to the right, hard to see, but there is a tab that is sticking out of the Sonnax along the outer edge of the joint at about 3 o'clock.)

That tab is a side-sliding lock feature which I think might be pretty good. The TransGo Snap Ring is "cut to fit" (a lot like gapping a piston ring but with almost zero gap,) which probably helps with it locking. Check it out:

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Sonnax is above, TransGo below. That physical tab seems pretty smart, I think it is worth the 13-14 bucks I paid (heck, I got the TransGo kit for about 20 less than I thought I would, is that "false economics?" That's how chicks buy shoes...)

OK, so now the endplay information. Remember my background is 4L80E's and a 4R70W and they were gas from "master" kits (read that as "Big metal shish-kabob" and bolt it together.) I'm trying to be more aware with diesel.

From the ATSG, I saw this callout:

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Now, being a parttime *******, I would think that "Determine Endplay" and "The amount of space existing between the thrust washer surfaces of the center support and the intermediate brake drum--- (.081-0.032 inch)" means that I should be getting the whole enchilada to fall within these specs, right?

Well,

I found this response from a transmission builder regarding adjusting endplay with different thickness of shims.
"As per ford it is not adjustable. The end play measurement spec is there just to verify that assembly has been correct to that point.... And not intended to be fine tuned... That is what the hole in the center support is for.. To place a depth micrometer thru to the direct drum.... If ford wanted this spec to be adjusted they would make different thickness center support washers."

(Scratching my head... The numbers are just there to see that I put it back together right.)

Re-reading the holy ATSG, Second Sentence:

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"The transmission rear end play CHECK determines"

(We are just checking, that's all ATSG wants, to fall within these specs with our feeler gauges. BUT if you want a tighter running transmission without a lot of bumps between gears, you want to be at the low end of the given range)

MAN, I AM OVERTHINKING THIS...

This is my first run with this style of transmission.

I will post more about getting that trick endplay when I get to that bridge.

Oh, and think about it, that 0.081 - 0.032 is going to CHANGE A LOT as the frictions wear down. Just like brakes and clutches. Trainspeeder mentioned that fluid pressure is important, now it makes sense, all the growing gaps have to be filled with liquid, simple as that.

Anyways, I'm all apart and parts are trickling in.

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Last thing, the 4R100 Bypass Tube has two camps, those who favor and those who delete.

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Seemed like a lot of guys did not understand that the check valve it supports, is pressure/viscosity sensitive. If your fluid runs thick, then the fluid goes right back into the transmission. If your fluid is thin, it goes to the cooler(s). That's a GOOD thing. AND if you start up in sub-freezing temps, it will get the trans up to safe temps quicker.

If your cooling system clogs, and your E4OD is stock, your E4OD is DEAD but by adding the Bypass Tube the tranny will begin to heat up, thus buying you some time to pull over and cuss... ...but your transmission still has a chance.

Lots of discoveries- I'll keep you posted.
George

 

[trackspeeder]

Now you see why the Sonnax ring is better. Once its locked it will not come out at all.
The cut to fit snap rings is for your coast clutch. The stock snap ring is known to pop out of the groove. This snap ring will prevent this. Other fix is to cut the groove deeper.

Now for end play. Friction wear will not affect this. What will is bushing wear. As you know the reason to check end play is to make sure you assembled it correctly. Now if you were building this tranny to hold big power, end play will become important. In this case machining the center support for stabilizer ring(s)

Most people who toss the bypass don't understand its function. It is designed to protect the tranny due to blockage or restriction. The damage that is caused by blockage is ugly. Luckily there are over sized bushings that can save some units. Others go to the junk pile.

 

[SDEconVan]

Well I've got a couple of things to report and started the rebuilding/updating process as well.

Parts are trickling in, got the HD Front Planetary Gear (6-pinion, steel case, NOS=New Old Stock.)

The Front Planet fits like it's supposed to be there.

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Anyways, I do not have enough other parts to go and check the endplay so that is as far as I can take that, it fit.

I need to mention a couple things about ENDPLAY as I learn more. First, I think that the endplay CAN be manipulated, second that
a smaller amount of endplay is beneficial. Contrary to the quote I found earlier about the tranny builder who said that Ford did not
intend to adjust that tolerance, I say "BS" because Ford DOES produce various thickness Snap Rings just for that purpose.

Granted with my E4OD build, the Snap Rings are of one set thickness, I am NOT adjusting them (machining) nor am I going to mill the
groove that they ride in. I am working on other methods (I will get to a bit of that later.)

Meanwhile, I ordered some ADJUSTMENT SHIMS for the Reverse/Low, recalling the Sonnax 36402-Z shim pack:

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(Shim- 4 slots)

I got that shim pack today:

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The pack consists of 10 shims, identical, 0.010" thick each. So now I have up to 0.100" of endplay slack at my disposal.
But I will cross that bridge when I get to it, as I am still waiting for other parts to arrive. Just thought it was interesting
that I CAN adjust endplay on an important assembly, Reverse/Low, which is known to be sensitive to sloppy endplay resulting
in delayed/bumped shifts.

Last for the evening I started on the Valve Body updates, using the TransGo "Tugger" shift kit.
(I want to post assembly as more eyes (and minds with way more experience,) can hit this and maybe save some time.)

No Front Pump yet, so skipped page 1.

Next came page 2. Valve Body ID. I have the second type VB style, plus I had "two holes" as shown in a picture of the
sheet metal Separator Plate- SO, do nothing...

(Feel like I'm gonna have a lot of extra left-over parts from this kit...)

Next came page 3. Update the Accumulator Valve Body.
Oh HOLY C#*P they want me to DRILL into a perfectly good part... ...ok

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(you see the great pics the instructions have, they seem a bit much until you mentally downshift and do one thing at a time,
then they are great! Right up my alley!)

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I think by doing this, I am showing some commitment to getting this done

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Call out was for 0.076-0.093 holes, the kit came with a 0.081 drill bit, so I figured "What the heck is life all about anyways?" and
used it. (I guess I could go back later and make the holes bigger as a tune effort, but I have an electronic trans controller I'm
installing which may be able to override that.)

Clean your chips with spray chem cleaner

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(Notice the chips, get them OUT!)

I then updated the various valves in the Accum Body:

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Accumulator Valve itself, gets a black spring replaced by a pretty blue one...

This is how you extract Valve Caps when you don't own a transmission shop (or do...?)

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4th Accum:

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(3 springs replaced a single blue one, probably to get some progressive action out of the normally linear valve)

(Cont.)

 

[SDEconVan]

3rd Accum:

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Had a little surprise on the 3rd Accumulator, notice the White Spring that I replaced fell out BROKEN

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*this is why you go through transmissions that you bought for hardly anything but plan to keep

2nd Accumulator Valve got a new line valve piston as well (Heck if I know why...)

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(^ this is what came out)

This is what went in:

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Steel Line valve, yes, even those tiny extra bevels on the ends can make a difference, in this case to avoid binding.

After the Steel LV went in, in go the new springs:

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Accumulator Valve Body is done- chuck the old parts and move on...

...next up, wait til you see what they want me to do to my Solenoid Pack

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"Look at her, she's untouched..."

Regards,
George