overdrive isnt a bad idea... ZF5 questions

Ok so the input shaft bearing is wiped out on my T19, as you all read I was sniffing around the idea of a NV4500 but I don't have upwards of $3000 to get one. I probably have upwards of $1300 into the T19 in the scout now (flywheel $125,south bend kevlar clutch $350, trans its self $600, jackshaft $275). So some of you convinced me the ZF maynot be the **** burger I thought it was, also seeing it going for about $1100 remaned ready to rock online isn't too hard to swallow. The only thing is can I use the clutch and flywheel I have now? How much longer than the T19 is the ZF5, I have a 15 inch jackshaft and I could shorten it a little without the angle being too awful. What's the first gear ratio? What should I look for with one? Suggestions or comments about going from the T19 to the ZF5? I know the T19 (other than bearing failure) is about as strong as they come.

-Jon

I just responded to the other post here; might be worth taking a look at. I'm not sure how long the 2WD ZF is compared to the 2WD T-19, but the 4x4 variants are the exact same length. As to the clutch assembly, I would recommend the LuK SMFW kit, but there is a guy on here who was able to make a T-19 flywheel work with a ZF. The tranny input shaft on the ZF is thicker, though, so you'll need a new clutch plate regardless.

Beyond that...the biggest thing with the ZF is to make sure to use ATF, and don't float gears unless you HAVE to...floating gears on a ZF is a great way to kill the syncros, and that'll get expensive right quick Given that this is going into a rig that you (presumably) take wheeling, you might want to see if there's a way to reinforce the bellhousing...IIRC some people have had issues here before, but I don't remember the specifics.

I think that, in the long run, you'll be quite happy with the ZF

I agree with Tim. As far as I know, the flywheel and clutch are different enough between the T19 and the ZF5 that they can't be used together. I'm in the process of converting my 6.9 crew cab from a C6 to a ZF5. I got the SMF and 13 inch clutch from South Bend Clutch for about $600. I haven't got either installed yet, but I hope to in the near future.

Like Tim said, the difference in length between the 4x4 T19 and ZF5 is scant and the two can interchange without driveshaft swaps. On the 2x4 versions.... ????? I don't know.

Heath

The main difference is going to be on the input shaft. The ZF's use an 1 1/4" input shaft where the T19's use an 1 1/8". I can't speak for overall length though because I converted from a 2WD T19 to a 4WD ZF and that setup was obviously longer. i also had to move the subframe support for the tranny back about 2 inches.

I just did this swap on my 86' F350, T19 to ZF5. The clutch is a no go for sure. The input shaft is the main reason, wrong size. I can get you the autozone 12 luk set up with single mass flywheel complete new, not remaned for $385 plus tax, and shipping. Comes with flywheel, pressure plate, sprung disc, pilot bearing, throw out bearing, alignment took, and grease for pilot bearing. This clutch is like velvet, and holds great, I have been driving it already. Anyway, back to the swap. The ZF is slightly longer then the t19 also, but only by a small amount. All we had to do is slide back the cross member just a touch, and it was done. It is a very easy switch, and you can find used transmissions out there to cheapen up the job a bit. As an option you can use your existing flywheel, and autozone, which is the only supplier of this sells and 11" clutch kit that you can bolt to your existing flywheel that will work with the ZF. I didn't want to go the smaller clutch route, but some don't mind, and it does work for less then $180. Look around here for those part numbers, they are here somewhere. Best of luck.

LUK 07-076 is an 11" rep-set that will work with the existing SMF. Got it on ebay for 175 shipped.

So is it confirmed when switching 4x4 T-19 to ZF...no need to change driveshaft?

That's correct. They will swap directly. As for the clutch and flywheel, just grab yourself a busted factory DMF, lucky mod it, and your good to go for just a few dollars. You can find a bad DMF easily on this board.

FordGuy100 said:

So is it confirmed when switching 4x4 T-19 to ZF...no need to change driveshaft?

Click to expand...

That's true for my 4x4 C6 to ZF5 swap. Tim's swap was 4x4 T19 to ZF5 and it was true for him as well.

Heath

ugh.... well mabe this route is a bit expensive also...I guess ill go to the local pull a part and see if there's a T19 in any of fords there, $60 sounds a lot better than upwards of $1500. Which I do not and will not have for a while. As much as id love overdrive I'm just going to have to wait I think. Mabe ill find a ZF5 in one in the pull a part.

-Jon

hesutton said:

That's true for my 4x4 C6 to ZF5 swap. Tim's swap was 4x4 T19 to ZF5 and it was true for him as well.

Heath

Click to expand...

can you elaborate a little on what you said? i have been wondering what would be needed to change from c6 4x4 to zf5 4x4. i havent put much thought into it because i also have a GV OD unit and wouldnt mind being able to go ODx2. so i guess my basic question is, what is the difference in length between a ZF5 4x4 and C6 4x4 and would i be able to bolt a ZF5 up in place of my C6?

Mine originally had a C6 - now has a ZF5. I switched from a 460 over to a 7.3 at the same time but that part shouldn't matter. The transfer case and drivelines never even came out of the truck. You need a ZF crossmember with the upper "ears" also. The four bolts on the top of the frame rail bolted right up. The two holes on the bottom of the frame rail had to be redrilled about 1" back. The only part that didn't bolt up was the linkage to the transfer case; just made a new one out of flat bar.

what was it exactly that kept the transfer case linkage from bolting up? was there clearance issues, or did the transfer case move just enough to keep it from bolting back up?

also, i see you are running a BW1345, would you or anyone else know if there are any possible differences between the mounting of a BW1345 and BW1356 only in relation to how the transfer case and transmission mate up? i ask because i dont know if the ZF5 was offered with one case or the other, but that wouldnt matter if there are no differences in how they mate up.

and Warden, what do you mean by floating gears? i get the feeling that you are talking about shifting without using the clutch since you mention the syncros.

david_lee said:

can you elaborate a little on what you said? i have been wondering what would be needed to change from c6 4x4 to zf5 4x4. i havent put much thought into it because i also have a GV OD unit and wouldnt mind being able to go ODx2. so i guess my basic question is, what is the difference in length between a ZF5 4x4 and C6 4x4 and would i be able to bolt a ZF5 up in place of my C6?

Click to expand...

I'm removing the 4x4 C6 and replacing it with 4x4 ZF5. There is less than an inch different in the length of the trannies and there is more than enough adjustment in the mounts to make up the difference and that is no where near enough difference to need new drive shafts.

I have a US gear Underdrive unit between the T-case and the tranny. So I'll have an over and an underdrive. I had to modify the tranny tunnel pan from the ZF5 donor so my old school T-case shifter would pass through the pan (like they do on all '83-'86) as the donor '91's T-case shifter passes through the floor of the cab.

The rest will be changing the pedals out, moding the firewall for the clutch master cylinder and getting rid of the column shifter. The Tranny otherwise will bolt into position.

Heath

what yard are you gona look in? i am gona try to get to e-z pull in hazelton soon. i dont belive harrys in pennsburg will have any. hazelton maybe.


www.wegotused.com

also harrys special for the week of 20th to 26th is 50 dollar trans. hazleton only.